Dental A Team Podcast

Re-releasing a DAT listener favorite! Dr. Lewis Chen is aboard the Dental A-Team! Dr. Chen has become an extremely successful dentist in a short amount of time — like, 10-practices-in-two-years successful. He shares with Kiera what he did differently to find his success, including utilizing the right resources and committing to a schedule. Dr. Chen and Kiera also discuss the difference between work and luck, things that went well, and pitfalls he wishes he’d avoided. He also shares life hacks, his best tip for delegation, and how to elevate teams. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera (00:05) Hey everyone, welcome to the Dental A Team podcast. I'm your host, Kiera Dent, and I had this crazy idea that maybe I could combine a doctor and a team member's perspective, because let's say dentistry can be a challenging profession with those two perspectives. I've been a dental assistant, treatment coordinator, scheduler, pillar, office manager, regional manager, practice owner, and I have a team of traveling consultants where we have traveled to over 165 different offices coaching teams. Yep, we don't just understand you, we are you.   Kiera (00:14) Because face it.   Kiera (00:34) Our mission is to positively impact the world of dental. And I believe that this podcast is the greatest way I can help elevate teams, grow VIP experiences, reduce stress, and create A-Teams. Welcome to the Dental A Team Podcast. ⁓   Team listeners, this is Kiera and you guys. Today is a pretty special day. I have a dear friend. We have chatted so many times. He is a rock star on Instagram. If you do not watch his channel, you definitely need to. And he's just one of the coolest people that I feel is a great inspiration. He's been able to do what a lot of other offices have not been able to do. So I'm so jazzed to bring on Dr. Louis Chen. How are you today, Louis?   Dr. Chen (01:14) Good. Thanks for having me. It's always a pleasure. It's been so long since we've been actually meeting in person. think the last time was in 2018, 2019.   Kiera (01:23) I Because I saw you I think first, was it Paul Goodman's event, the dental nachos? I think that's where we first met.   Dr. Chen (01:30) Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's when I saw Mark in person for the first time and then I saw you for the first time, but I've known about both of you, you know, from some years back. So it's about time. Almost fangirling at the time. I'm fangirling now still.   Kiera (01:43) So.   Well,   you're so kind. You just you inspire me. So I am so jazzed. Kind of take our listeners. I know a little bit of your journey, but gosh, you have done some impressive work since 2019, only in 2021. And in the middle, we had COVID. So kind of just walk our listeners through just your back history, your backstory of how you even got to being a dentist, what kind of inspired you to become one, where you're at today. Just kind of give people your quick bio on you.   Dr. Chen (02:13) Quick bio, so okay, I'll give myself a short version. So I started in college with an economics major to which I graduated with that degree. And during that time in sophomore year, I remember interning at dental office and my parents liked the arts, liked the sciences, tried dentistry and I did. since that time, I shadowed a dentist and he was very,   I was very shy guy. He's like, listen, you should spend some time learning about patient care. Just learn about patients. Don't think about the dentistry. Dentistry will come. go to school for that. School doesn't teach you how to speak to people. ⁓ then later I focused a lot of my time doing it. And I realized in New York City, the crux of New York City, dentistry is not cheap. It's an expensive commodity. part of that   you when I sat there, realized like, you know, patients who've had a great time when they checked out, they had to build a pay, it's usually not as exciting.   Kiera (03:21) It's true   Dr. Chen (03:23) Yeah, so I had I was sought out on mission. said, well, you know, why in New York City is very saturated? Why should I be perpetuating that sort of, you know, that the stereotype of dentistry, dental work to be expensive? So I sought out a vision and said, you know what? I love dentistry. I want to provide good quality care. It's like, social hour, happy hour, every day, every hour. But why can I just make it a little bit more affordable?   than my neighbor, neighboring dentists. And I wanted to provide exceptional patient experience and exceptional patient care, the dental care, so on and so forth, the whole camera things. And then I said, know what? I want to do on a scale. I want to at least have five offices by the time, and I want to achieve that. And I was 19 at the time.   Kiera (04:13) Haven't even gone to dental school. You're like, here's the vision. This is what I want. And let's make it happen.   Dr. Chen (04:18) Yeah, and that's exactly what I mean, through dental school, wasn't my vision. My vision was to be an exceptional provider, which is kind of still falls into my core values when I first started. purpose behind what I do is just, know, making, helping as many lives as, you know, impact as many lives as possible through this journey. then now fast forward, you know, I went to dental school, did right residency. And then 2019 to 2021, my partner and I   which is who I met in dental school. was my professor at the time. And since then I've got all the new partners we just started to build and from two locations and now in 2021, hopefully by the end of 2021, we'll have 10.   Kiera (05:02) You guys heard that right. That was 10. So, you know, 2019 to 2021, 10 practices. It's pretty impressive, Louis. And what I love, ⁓ you and I are very aligned. Our mission at Dental A Team is to positively impact the world of dentistry in the greatest way possible. And you also wanted to positively impact, ⁓ and change the way patients view dentistry. So I just love it. Louis, I think you're an inspiration to so many. So I'm going to like, let's get ready. Let's dive deep. Cause I'm sure people listening are like how.   How did you do it? It like, that's great. You had a vision when you were 19, you went to dental school. Sounds like you partnered up with somebody fantastic. And now here you are two years later and you've got 10 practices. So kind of walk us through some of the things that you felt helped perpetuate that and make it into a reality. You're also in New York. I mean, you got hit hard with COVID. I think you actually were one of the hardest hit places of all. I mean, massive growth, massive, massive change. And you're also like real chill. You are always like,   fun and engaging. also attend a ton of CE. You also have a personal life. So I'm a lot of people ask how and I'm always curious to know like very successful people, people who just I feel like and sometimes it's weird to say like successful people because you're like, I'm just Lewis, like I'm just this person. But it's like you do things differently. You are a different breed. Everybody else has the same opportunities in life, but you do things differently. So what are some of those things that you feel like you've done differently to get to this state in your life right now?   Kiera (06:18) Your   Dr. Chen (06:29) That was a loaded   Kiera (06:30) It is a loaded question. That's why you're on the podcast, Louis. You can ask all the questions to you.   Dr. Chen (06:33) I   You asked amazing questions. I'm happy to entertain and I feel like I should be a better question asker too. To start, think to perpetuate is one is having the proper resources available to you and just committing yourself. I remember when I was in residency or whatnot, on top of being in residency, learning what I had to do and just kind of self-learning. I was listening to lot of podcasts and then eventually podcast was a huge learning experience because it's available. It's available and why not utilize it? Over time as you start building your sort of   operations business, I entertain, you know, just taking CEF. Actually, one of my team members, couple of my teams are infatuated with you, Kiera, by the way. They love you. They're like, Oh my God, I wish I could be Kiera. I'm like, you should.   Kiera (07:19) When I come to New York, I'll be there in December, let me know, we'll hang out, be a time. It'd be a fun surprise list, we should definitely like off air, come up with a surprise, it'd be real fun.   Dr. Chen (07:30) Yeah, it's it's it's I do send a lot of information you send out to your newsletters are fantastic. So again, actually reading the resources are provided. I know sometimes people just kind of sift through and kind of toss it away. But I should sift through it and I say, well, I'm going to forward to the appropriate team members so I can elevate them. Right. So one of the just, you know, being the good filter of resources is one of what you do is committing yourself to a schedule. Right. For me, like I'm always an early bird now, like   5 to 35, 45 wake up. I work pretty much all day, like nonstop and it's hard to get a hold of me. I'm always bouncing around offices. And I what gets me going is really just that commitment to purpose, which I think that people don't focus so much on. And when they go into dentistry, it's that purpose. I still stand by what I want to achieve when I was 19 till now, which is basically just continue to drive and push for great, great things, you know, and over time it, you elevate yourself.   and you realize you just start to grow in size, expand, you need to have a belief system. And it comes first, which is, know, what's your core values and really just redesigning everything that you do. So ⁓ that gets me going. I wake up in the morning, I have a purpose behind what I do. ⁓ I have my own personal core values that I abide by. ⁓ And there's nothing better than that.   Kiera (08:51) I love it. I love it so much. And Lewis, of course, I'm going to dive in deeper. think a few pieces I pulled from that is one, it sounds like you're very, ⁓ let's say like regimated, like, you know what you want to do in life. And I found that when I talked to successful people, it's one of my favorite things about the podcast is picking people's brains. ⁓ Tony Robbins has a quote that I love and it says successful people ask better questions. So it's like, what is that routine? Like you have a morning routine, you wake up at certain times, you're very much dedicated to a purpose, something beyond you.   Because like when those hard days come, which they will always come, it's pulling back to why are we doing this? What is the why behind it? So I love that you, started first with that. I also love that you mentioned you filter through the resources that are available. You're right. This podcast is free. Like people can download it, listen to it. We put it on for free and we bring on really awesome guests. also like our newsletters are written by our consultants and I check all of them, make sure there's awesome facts, tangibles in there. It's not just a newsletter of like   But it really is, but also filtering through like what is that best information? So I love hearing that you actually take the time to read through it. Be systematized in how you operate. So I'm going to dive into like, what do you feel? Cause I feel like I was given the golden spoon of success meeting Mark Costas. Like I will say that again and again and again, just like proximity is power, right place, right time meeting people I connected in, I helped an office grow exponentially. They connected me with Mark Costas, had the whole DSI experience. It was amazing.   Kiera (09:56) but you're also very   Kiera (10:18) perpetuated Dental A Team, learned a ton, but like that was a strike of lightning, but I don't think it was just pure luck. think right place, right time, also looking for opportunities. So for you, what were some of those opportunities again, cause I hate when people say it was just luck. I'm like, yes, did I get a really lucky golden card out of heaven? Absolutely yes. But I also think there was a lot of preparation that came for it. So what were some of the things you feel like you've been, you've done well that has kind of propelled you to be able to do 10 practices in two years?   Dr. Chen (10:46) To your point, know, like I do say it's a part of luck, but I think it's a little bit of understanding whether the luck is presented to you. Because sometimes people, there's plenty of opportunities that presented it. And sometimes we just don't visualize it to be a luck. know, for me, I was really hard. You I worked hard and I graduated early from dental school, but I was the only guy who worked till the very, very end. Even though didn't have to, I still wanted to work.   didn't take the vacation that other people did. I just really wanted to be the absolute best at what I did and be comfortable with it. And my partner at the time, my professor at the time is a prosthodontist. So he's very detail oriented. He had his eyes on me, like this hard worker, great with people, loved dentistry, good clinician. And I had a vision, know, him and I sat down and he said, what are your goals? Because he wanted to hire me as an associate. What are your goals? What do you want to do?   And then as soon as we got off that dinner, I remember it was December 2016, something like that. He was just like, what if I want you to work with me? Like not just work with me, like work, build something with me. I'm like, what's going on? And I didn't went to residency and I was like, all right, cool. I'll continue to do what I had to do. ⁓ But I continued to revisit and commit to my, that luck and opportunity. ⁓   Again, I think to that point, I think we have to understand that we have to our best self out for us every day because if you're not performing optimally, yeah, sometimes people perceive, you know, under performance is not optimal performance. And I'm going to deliver, you know, if an interview falls short, you know, like what I have to do, that's the first impression, right? ⁓ So I definitely think that we have to be on A game all the time for sure in order to, and then...   Once you hit that point, critical mass like a games always your game.   Kiera (12:38) That   becomes your new standard. That's where it is. That's your baseline.   Dr. Chen (12:41) That's the baseline. Did I answer your question, Tyler? There's another loaded question. So I was like,   Kiera (12:46) It   was a loaded question, Lewis. I just like to pick people's brains of like what it sounds like if I were to recap it in a way, it's almost as if I feel like you put in a lot of hard work, hustle and grit. And I think that that's important. I love the picture. I'm sure a lot of us have seen it of the ballet slippers. Like there is a ballerina on point and one foot's in the ballerina slipper and the other foot is this like cut up bloody hot mess. And it says everybody wants success, but they often don't realize what it takes to get there. And   I think about, like, I just heard a lot of that hard work, that grit. You also had a vision and you were very committed to it. So I think about team members, I think about practice owners of what is that vision and are you actually committed to it? Are you a fair weather fan or are you like ride or die? I will achieve this goal. And I hear a lot of conviction, but also because of that conviction from you, Louis, I feel like it also presented you opportunities that might have otherwise passed you by. This professor was looking for an associate.   ⁓ You had proven yourself to be this very successful student. So they were looking, there was an opportunity sitting there. You didn't even know it. I tell people often, I groom people. I watch people before they even become in leadership. My husband was groomed for about four years before he was taken into leadership. Had no idea it was happening, but people are constantly watching. There are opportunities always around us. It's just, like you said, who are you presenting day in and day out? So I love that. I love that.   Kiera (13:51) And a lot of times I   Kiera (14:11) And I hope other people are listening and realizing it's not just a stroke of luck. Being your best self, having that baseline continually, that's what's gonna set you up for opportunities that you may have otherwise missed. next up, professor, decide you're going to become partners. You're gonna take this on, you finish up residency. So I also love that you equipped yourself with the skills and tools you needed. So if it didn't work out with your professor, all eggs were in that basket. You're like, with you or without you, I will do this. And I like that you did that.   Kiera (14:15) It is literally.   You and   Kiera (14:40) So then what are some of the things you felt you and your partner did very well from the get go? Cause I also feel a lot of success comes from pivoting quickly, learning from your mistakes very quickly. So what were some of the things you felt at the beginning you guys did really, really well, and then I'm going to pivot to mistakes. But right now, what are some of the things you felt like that set me up for success exceptionally well in the beginning?   Dr. Chen (15:03) Well, I think they keep an open mind and think that having the clear expectations of one of each other is important. As we continue to grow, we add more to partners too. We've been again, it's awesome to have different. we, we, we may get very clear what our strengths are, stay in your lane kind of thing. My partner is great with the financial aspects. I'm great with, well, I'm not great with system, but I like systems.   Kiera (15:26) I can tell you wake up at a certain time, the process, I got the vision, you're good.   Dr. Chen (15:30) Yeah, the gaining writing it, the process, the system, putting it in place, organize, that's the hard part that he doesn't take care of. But that's what I do. The one thing that we did do well is we talked about where we want to what we want to achieve. I think that one of the things that he mentioned was, you know, what he's trying to achieve is not, you know, for the financial goals. His is very in line with mine, which is to provide exceptional care. So our core values were aligned. So at any given point.   I just know the decision that he suggests and makes ⁓ is for better, for good purpose or for the right reasons, not for any other intent. That was really important to us. ⁓ of course, you know, just building a lot of trust. I did throw a lot of my eggs in his back. And in fact, I did, threw everything in. have nothing. All my trust is all in. and, be, you know, be, be have the conviction to finish and, and strong.   And that's kind of where we stood. And I think that's what we did well. And we continued to grow. We weren't stagnant. We all, like my partner, he's 10 years my senior. So he's constantly in leadership classes because he needs to be a better leader. He wants to be a better leader. He takes the necessary classes to be a better leader.   He understands he's self-reflective and self-aware about how he presents himself to his team. And it rubs off on me. again, we learn ⁓ one also great thing is we embrace honest mistakes. We embrace the humility. Cause even if I made a mistake and I would, I would honestly tell them like, cause I'm looking my bad. I didn't think about this. I didn't think about that. Here's the outcomes. Like it's fine. Just, just don't do it again. Just figure it out. Put it on a sheet of paper, figure it out, do it again. And ⁓ that's, there's a lot of forgiveness in that process, which helped.   I oftentimes think that if there's no open communication to allow for humility, ⁓ people get, you know, they're probably get stuck with within their own confines. ⁓ And I think that's something that was really beneficial for us.   Kiera (17:38) As you guys look back on 2021, how was it? Was it your best year? Was it a year you could have done a little better? And as you're looking forward to 2022, what type of a practice and a person do you want to be? Well, guys, now is the time to take massive action and to have the life and the practice you've always wanted. Dental A Team Platinum is where it's at, guys. We focus on system development. That's right, top to bottom. Team development, growing leaders, growing you as a person, making sure you're balanced, that we have happier teams.   And we also ensure that your practice is profitable, teaching you how to be business. So if you're looking to enhance your practice, take it to the next level. You yourself want to grow. Now is the time. Dental A Team platinum. We fly to your practice. Most of our offices see a 10 to 30 % increase in revenue, reduction of stress, happier teams, better patient experiences. So if you know, you want to rocket launch yourself into 2022, don't wait guys. We are only taking on so many platinum practices because we physically fly to you. So email us today.   Kiera (18:09) Abby.   Kiera (18:34) Hello@TheDentalATeam.com and you better believe we have something special for you end of year offices. So be sure to reach out Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. Remember you're only one decision away from a completely different light.   Kiera (18:37) So   Gosh, so many good takeaways because I think so many people have partnerships that actually don't go well. And so helping to see you guys were in your lanes, you also had complimentary skillsets to one another. I think that that's actually amazing that you figured out stay in your lanes. And then there's the honest mistakes, like that happens. I tell everybody like fail successfully. And I also love another quote, like there are no failures. There's just results. Like what happened? Why did it happen? Like let's learn from it so it doesn't happen again and move forward.   And when teams and partners feel that they can make those mistakes, there's so much freedom. Like the rules and the boundaries are all open. You can have anything. There's massive creative success and openings and ideas that can come because you feel very, very free, I guess, to make those mistakes. You know you're gonna be accountable to it, but there's nothing wrong in not having it go exactly as planned. So I'm not gonna pivot, Louis. Like you've been so generous. And I just, wanted to pick your brain. I've been dying to talk to you. You guys have such a fun culture.   which I think kudos to you guys for doing that. But now next up is going to be, what do you feel, like I know I can go back in my career and say like, these were big pivotal mistakes that if I could do it over again, I would never have done that. So maybe one or two of those, and not even mistakes, I guess it's just like, like of course I learned from them. I'm grateful I had them, but if I was giving someone guidance, these would be some pitfalls that I wish I would have known about prior to making them. Do you have any of those that have come? I mean, 10 practices in two years, Louis, I'm not gonna lie. Like it's impressive.   I love it, I'm so freaking proud of you. I'm like high fiving you through the screen right now. Just impressed with who you are and that your vision's coming to light. What were some of those pitfalls though that you're like, wish I would have done that.   Dr. Chen (20:25) I couldn't, there was a laundry list and to your point of failing successfully, so important failing forward. I mean, God, like it's, can give you a whole separate podcast on just fail failures. Biggest thing is, Eagle let go of Eagle. Huge thing about Ventus is Eagle. It's like, it go. Number two, team culture. number three, put the, pro provided proper resources for success. you know, seek out, there's tons of resources out there. Like you said, you can.   Kiera (20:27) Ha   Dr. Chen (20:55) You can purchase the protocols, can purchase manuals, can, you know, whatever it is, you don't have to reinvent the wheel if you don't have to. Very simple, right? And oftentimes people think I want my own recipe. And I always say it, I say it to my teams. I'm like, at some point, re-revent the recipe, you know, the wheel, or just follow, always following someone else's recipe. Use the recipe to make something that you like to cook, not what they like to cook. If you want that breaded chicken, maybe you want some breaded cutlet chicken cutlet with some other paprika or something like, or Cajun.   That's your recipe. What are those additional variables? But you don't have to reinvent the wheel, save yourself the time and struggle. ⁓ Number three is learning to elevate the team. I realized that people forget that every team member is looking for growth. You just have to provide that platform for growth. Another one is, again, same thing with race humility about your leadership. I think that sometimes people look for   team members with skillset and they don't provide the opportunity to look at potential more than skillset. And to this day, I don't hire for skills. I hire for talent to hire for potential because you can't find someone who's really good with hospitality, who hasn't been in the hospitality.   Kiera (22:05) Amen. true. So true. I love it.   Dr. Chen (22:09) Yeah, there's so much more to things that I, ⁓ again, even cultural alignment with your partners, resetting that, having that conversation or revisiting, you figuring the differences out that, know, the only way you can grow is to be aligned and there's no other question. There's no other way around it.   Kiera (22:27) Gosh, I love it so much. think that there's just so many pieces on there. And something I really wanted to highlight, the reason I asked that question is because again, I think so many people look at that and say, my gosh, 10 practices in two years. Is this person really human? Do they ever make mistakes? And I think it's really important to realize on the path of success.   I loved, heard a quote and it's called the success tax. Like there are hard times that follow. There are things that we wish we wouldn't have done. There are things that we learn along the way, but it's like, just keep growing and becoming better. So I'm actually gonna ask you, I came up with a few questions that I've wanted to ask podcast guests that I'm like, ⁓ I'm gonna remember to ask Louis these. So my first question is, what is your best time saving hack?   Dr. Chen (23:12) time-saving hack. People oftentimes say it's because I sleep so little.   Kiera (23:17) How many how many hours do you sleep at night Louis let's talk about that   Dr. Chen (23:21) So I got an aura ring. So this is a ring that measures your sleep and the REM sleep. So I'm trying to life hack myself through data by understanding like, well, if I'm, if I'm getting X amount of hours of deep sleep or REM sleep or whatnot, am I going to, do I wake up feeling like I'm going to be productive? Right. I feel like I'm energized. Do I feel like I'm putting myself, you know, put my best foot forward? That's key. I am huge on calendars. I know that I heard a podcast on productivity. Some people say to do lists are great, but   calendars even better, but I personally have all my work that I do actually on calendar by blocks almost. I put it on my calendar to say, all right, today payroll, got to do payroll. Not that I hope to achieve it, but there's so many moving parts that what time set forth is not usually the time I will take to complete. at the minimum, I try to tackle it by, I have a to-do project management to-do list and I break it down by location, by management, by, you know,   team members or administrative or all that stuff. And I prioritize it based off deadlines. So for me, I feel like I will prioritize and provide a deadline for myself if I find this work's gonna take a little longer. If it's easy, I'm not gonna get out because there's no point to delay procrastinating easy tasks because I feel like completing easy tasks, tasks drive, provides us momentum and inertia to continue to achieve more. So sometimes I wake up waking in the morning, like tackling the biggest task and like,   this is a drag. gonna take a long time to do it. But if I just start tacking like, you know, just, you know, finishing off some emails or just, you know, taking off some of the things on the to-do list, I get this momentum of feeling pro tip productive and I continue to be more productive. ⁓ but that's one of my life hacks.   Kiera (25:03) I like it.   I like it. Okay. So I like also that you, one thing I hope people are picking up is that you innovate. You are literally looking at your sleep habits to see do, could I actually be as productive with less sleep? Like I love it. I love that you're testing it out. You're trying it out here. Like you think outside the box and I really hope that people are realizing like it doesn't just come with like the flick of your wrist or you know, a magic wand. Like this is called, you're actually putting these things into play. also agree with you. Calendaring.   It is a world of difference like I literally put blocks on the calendar because if there aren't blocks I've got an hour or two of free time Well instantly that hour or two gets sucked up by all these other things because I didn't actually proactively take care of it. So awesome next question is What's your best tip for delegation? And this is me just selfishly asking you all the things I want to get better at So I'm just asking this is you and me having a private podcast more for myself. So best tip for delegation. Louis. What is it?   Dr. Chen (25:58) I think the best question that that question I should be asking you instead, because you've been you've been able to grow practices, you're in consult now. So like, delegation is a weird thing. I think everyone says it the same, you everyone says the same thing. Abdication is very, very different delegation. Abdication is really just kind of relieving yourself of the work that you don't want to achieve. And it's putting into hands of someone with autonomy and then not providing the outcomes that you find to be successful. ⁓ Delegation is understanding that   your productivity will increase by you offloading some of the workload. So you can spearhead the delegation, not to do the work, but you can provide projects or spearhead, you know, with an individual who can take the load off and understanding an agenda. Even for myself right now, I'm at the point where I need to hire some more HR recruiters and more operations team members. And I know what I need because my time is   diminished if I continue to focus on so many different things that I know I can offload and just oversee, have a project timeline for that.   Kiera (27:06) Totally. I love it. I also, like, as you said that I'm hoping people heard that you prioritize your time and you're constantly hiring and innovating and bringing on different people. So that way you're always on optimum peak performance. Like what are the things that only you can do? Times being diminished. I could outsource this. I could hire somebody else. So, ⁓ and then the last question I have for you is your best tip for like team communication, or you talked a lot about elevating your team. This is a team podcast. What is something that you feel you do really, really well?   I think you guys have a really fun culture from what I see, super jazz for what you guys are doing. What do you feel is something that you've done very well to help have a great team culture in your practices?   Dr. Chen (27:46) So when I, and I still do the HR, so I hire for, I hire every person. And one of the biggest things is me being the person who can establish that culture through the interview from the get-go because, that comes from speaking to if with the right candidate, ⁓ I spend a little bit more time really going through the company culture as well as the core values of the, of the, of the office. So this way they come in expecting that what's harder is kind of shaking up the culture that doesn't exist.   Basically trying to create something that didn't start. like every office I'm trying something new, like find you the new Peto office that my partners and I have, you know, I came in and did this whole cultural thing and I'm not great at it. I'm trying it, but I walk in, I feel amazing. You know, I feel amazing. I see the team, the team is great. I feel I can't wait. I love coming to the office, right? And I love knowing that I can, because I also know that the team loves that too. ⁓   So that's one thing is to create the culture is just establish it from the get go. Like do not this do not delay the process to onboarding. If the moment you get onboarded culture comes first the belief systems. ⁓ Another thing is, you know, being honest with yourself with that process because it's very it's corny. And everyone talks about no one no one is like when I first started like core values, what are those like this work needs to be done right? Totally.   realize that toxicity happens and there's other stuff that needs to be managed and navigated. And it's just so much harder if you don't, especially if you start growing, the culture has to be consistent across the board. So yeah, and it's easier with one because you see the same people all the time. But if you're drop shipping yourself in different locations, you expect the culture to persist. And am I great at it? I am far from it. And   I'm constantly, even right now, I'm just trying to figure out how do I measure culture, right? How do I ensure that it's being consistent? Maybe because I'm coming in, people are performing well, maybe they're not, right? And how do I measure that? That's being, that's, I think that's the first and foremost thing.   Kiera (29:59) I really love that you said that and I love that you said it's cheesy because I think so many people think it's cheesy so they actually don't do it. And yet at the end of the day, we've got great resignation. It's hard to hire all these different pieces, but I'm like, you clearly are hiring a lot of people. And I think having a great culture that people genuinely love to work there. Having a culture that is based on core values. I have redone my core values. I think we're on like rendition four, but it's because I realized like things are being missed from our company.   And so I love that you brought up like the cheesy aspect of it. So bottom line is, and then you ask, and I'm actually just going to give you a tip that I've heard for how do you measure culture? Cause you're right. Like it should be a tangible thing. should be something when we walk in, it is the same from practice to practice to practice. So an office that I really, really love and respect and admire, they actually send out quarterly surveys or twice a year surveys. So November and May, and they actually have an anonymous survey of like, how is the culture? So they get a pulse on all the practices. ⁓   For my team, I'm constantly ripping our core values down and I will spot audit them and say, all right guys, what are our core values? And I will randomly ask different people on calls just to see, do they know the core values? Having core value shout outs at morning huddle where they have to all choose a team member and pick a core value. I don't care which one it is that exemplifies that. it'd be like today, Dr. Chen, I'm going to give him the core value of fun. Like he's always fun. He brings a lot of fun energy. So it actually is infused into your practice.   but then how to measure it doing those quarter or those twice a year surveys oftentimes can give you kind of a anonymous pulse on your practices. So I love that you brought these pieces in. I love that you're focused on it because I really do believe great cultures are where great practices are able to impact their community stronger. And it also impacts the lives of those that work there. So I love it. Those are so fun, Lewis. think it's fun to see your journey. It's been fun to watch you grow.   Kiera (31:40) this is happened.   Kiera (31:51) I I met you pre even owning practices and now to see you where you are and I just know there's so much more ahead of you. So I love it. I'm always rooting you on always happy to help. We should definitely plan a time to meet up. I'm always in New York. So I'd love to see you guys, but ⁓ thanks for sharing. Thanks for sharing all your tips. Any, any last things you want to share as we wrap up? I'd love to hear anything else you want to add in.   Dr. Chen (32:13) I think to any team member or any provider, particularly the providers, because to grow, you have to keep an open mind to what's out there. And even for myself, like you mentioned, I do say it's cheesy, but no one talks about it. But you know what? I see the difference day and night. It changes the way you deliver your care, it the way you lead, it changes the way you manage. And to your point, I tried the team surveys.   Again, I like trying a lot of things. And I realized that sometimes trying things has to have a structure. when you're ready for it, like I couldn't measure culture if I didn't understand what culture meant. But now that I have culture set in court, the core values of company culture established, now this might have a better impact. Now I have team members who can understand that and deliver that. So it is requires a lot of step back. I think one thing to learn from any team member is like,   take a step back and just kind of take a read on the practice. Whether people are feeling great, there, you know, I like, I like Danny Meyer. Danny Meyer, is podcast I sent it to you. And he talks about having team members, you know, check the weather report before to come in. Because if you're feeling sunny, there's going to be a sunny day in the office, patients, team members, everyone. But if you're feeling like you have a rainy day, you check yourself, leave that rain behind because you're going to rain on everyone else.   So that's one thing that I've started to realize is I gotta make sure to check on my Retherport every single day before I deliver my results.   Kiera (33:46) That's awesome, Lewis. You are just like I said, an inspiration. It's fun. Thank you for sharing. know it's sometimes uncomfortable to share our successes, sometimes uncomfortable to share failures. But I just love that's why I love this podcast because we bring the best of the best. We share ideas because I think sometimes just hearing someone's story, hearing someone's experiences, learning from them helps rocket launch so many other practices to success. So thank you, Lewis. I just adore you. I'm so glad you're here today. Always cheering you on. So thank you. Thanks for being a part of this today.   Dr. Chen (34:15) Thank you, appreciate it.   Kiera (34:17) Of   course. All right, you guys that wraps it up. Dr. Lewis Chen, super grateful guys. If you check him out, he's all over social media. ⁓ great, great person. He will respond to you. Like you will never believe this man is as busy as he is because he responds all the time. He's always gathering so much information. So check him out. Such an inspiration. And as always to all of you, thank you for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.   That wraps it up for another episode of Dental A Team Podcast. Thank for listening and we'll talk to you next time.   Kiera (34:44) Thank you so much for  

Tiff and Kristy talk about revisiting those goals your practice set at the beginning of 2025, and if you’re falling short, discuss how to get back on track. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:01) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. I am so excited to be back here today. I've got Kristy with me. You guys know I love podcasting with the consultant team and I love each of them for something very, special. Kristy, you are my gal that, like, I feel like we can talk about anything. Always be on the same page. You riff with me very easily.   And you always, always, always, I have to value this and appreciate it at the end. If I ever ask you for anything I missed, you always catch something and always have a pearl of wisdom. And I just think it's really, really, one, talented. Like not everyone can do that or think. A lot of people get like stressed, especially podcasting. And two, it just makes me really, really excited for your clients because I know you just operate in that way.   You're always thinking of like, my gosh, what else can I add? What value can I bring? And your clients are just insanely lucky to have you as a consultant. And your previous clients I know are just always checking in with you and they're always asking those simple questions or those hard questions. And Kristy, think it's just really cool. You're an insanely special human. So thank you for being here. Thank you for being a part of our team.   I hope you understand and know how valued you are, the Dental A Team, and just personally and professionally.   Kristy (01:25) Absolutely. Thank you. I'm honored to be here and be a part of ⁓ changing dental lives. ⁓   The Dental A Team (01:26) Yeah.   Thank you. And   just so everyone knows who's listening, podcasts are not like super easy. Recording podcasts can be a little daunting. And that was even before we had to do it by video. And I think about this a lot, actually, because it just, I think it's so funny. This is kind of like cell phones. We're going go on a little small little tangent because I think it's hilarious. I remember way back in the day when we were like,   bricks with these giant cell phones. We were like, this is stupid, like, why it needs to be small? So we had this little tiny flip phone that you really couldn't do a lot on, right? Because it was so small, but it was small. We wanted small and compact. And then we went to a BlackBerry and it was like, this is a whole computer and I can do my emails. And then we went small again. We like keep going back and forth and back and forth. And now, know, iPhones got it pretty well dialed in, but it's so much bigger than my cell phone was in high school. And I think about this a lot because   I think we go forward and backwards in life constantly. This is no different than that. Because you remember, I remember Brody was little and I used to do Beachbody coaching. I loved it. It was just like a past life that I absolutely loved. The fitness industry, the fitness world is my passion. But I remember we used to get on Facebook Live or we do YouTube videos and we were like, hey guys, this is how you make this cake or whatever it was.   And then we removed the video aspect, right? And that's when podcasts got popular and podcasts were not video. Podcasts were strictly just talking. And I remember Dana and I, or Britt and I, like get together and we could see each other, but it wasn't being recorded. So we could come however we wanted to look. It was just like, come as you are. We're only here for the voices. And then now, then we added the video back in and I'm like, wait, like we keep going backwards. Now I feel like we're doing YouTubes all the time. So.   Anyways, my small tangent there is like going forward and then coming backwards and feeling like you're making progress, but then technology pulls us back a little bit. And I think that we do that in life and personal life. We do that in habits. We're like, so good. The 30 days sugar detox, like I'm doing so good, right? We get to 28 days and we're like, but just a little bit won't hurt. I just want a little sugar. And we're like, dang it. Now we're sliding backwards or whatever the   I think we do that a lot in life and it doesn't have to be technology. It can just be habits. It can. It can be anything in some some places. A place that I see it a lot is within our goals within a company that only team has company goals. We we do the same thing over here. Every business is business is what I always say. We've consulted eye doctors and chiropractors and like business is business. I talked to.   You know, my financial advisor about his business structure, he's like, help me with the CPAs, whatever. Business is business and we all move forward and fall back and move forward and fall back. And today, Kristy, I thought it might be beneficial kind of being mid-year-ish to do a check-in on that. I know we do it with all of our clients, but making sure even non-client doctors who are here, business owners who are listening, that you know that this happens. This is...   This is life. Like we're back on video. Here we are. This is life. And we go forward and then we fall backwards. But no matter what, there's always a space to move forward again or move forward more. If you didn't fall backwards, you move forward more. There's always that space and there's always that availability. And oftentimes we get to this space in the year, June to like August timeframe, and we haven't looked at our trajectory very often.   in and maybe we look and we're like, ⁓ heavens, Tiff, like, I'm like 300 grand short of what I wanted to hit this year. And Kristy, how many times have you had a doctor call you just like, this is it, we got to change my goal. We've got it. We're not doing three million. We're doing 2.7. And you're like, no, we're not doing that. Yeah, like, no, we are not here for changing goals. We're here for pushing forward.   And I thought it would be fun for us to really take a look at that today and figure out how can you know that you're on or off track? And when you're off track, what do you do to get back on track? Now, Kristy, ⁓ what do you have your clients doing? And what have you always, you've worked with, you've consulted for a while. what have you always had your clients doing to stay, not even to stay on track, but just to know where they are. Like how do we know our baselines in business?   Kristy (06:15) Yeah, well first off, I always like to start the year projecting out our year, right? So looking at what we did last year and creating a goal with growth on top of it and projecting that out for the future. But then also when we do that,   ⁓ taking it and chunking it down. So we may have a big goal and starting the beginning of the year, if our goal is three million, that can be so daunting, right? And I think we all have to remember.   The Dental A Team (06:44) Mm-hmm.   Kristy (06:47) Yeah, we always have to keep our eye on the prize, but we need to also chunk it down. And you made a very good point about it being June. And my mind went to thinking back to the beginning of the year and how we're really excited, thinking of like starting school even. Your first year in college, I'm a freshman and I'm all gung-ho and I'm ready to study and I have these habits. And then all of a sudden we start to fall back in routine. remember,   The Dental A Team (07:05) Yeah.   Yeah.   Kristy (07:17) that each day is a new day to start over. But to your point...   Right now, we have our big goal and maybe we have a sheet with a thermometer or however you want to fill it and make sure we're always keeping our eye on that prize, but go smaller. Go to your month view, go to your weekly view, then go to your daily view and chunk it down because it makes it so much more doable and we resist the urge to change the goal then because we can look and see where we're at.   The Dental A Team (07:33) Yeah.   That's nice.   Kristy (07:49) and what we have to do to get back on track.   The Dental A Team (07:53) Yeah, I love that you said that like scale it back. Look at what the different layers are and then always looking at if you added these layers together now, does it equate to where you need to be? And something you said, Kristy was massive. Like I think so many doctors get into the year and like I'm going to do three million this year and then that's it. And it's like divide three million by 12. That's what we're hitting every month. And then we just go month by month by month.   But if we're not looking at our leads, our lags and our current, then we get lost in the shuffle. And Kristy, I think that's what you're saying, right, Cheon? Get back and know and then always look at what we've accomplished and where we have left to go. Not June to August timeframe can be seriously pivotal in making or breaking those goals, because if you now look at January to June and you say, OK,   What did I, what have I done? What is my year to date production so far? And then subtract that from your yearly goal and you're going to see your gap, right? So that's what you have left to do this year. Sometimes you might look at that and you might see your $300,000 short. That sounds massive, right? You're like, holy cow. Well, let's divide that by how many months we have left this year. Doesn't mean we throw in the towel and we're done. We say, okay,   If I'm going to do this, how do I get this done? And again, what you said, Kristy, it's mid year, but we're doing the same thing. We're doing the same thing that we did at the beginning here. We're just reevaluating and reassessing where we have left to go. So a lot of times, you know, I've had dentists that were like a hundred grand short, even at the end of the year, we look at it and we're like, oh my God, we barely missed it. Well, let's look at where we missed it. Why did we miss it? What happened?   to get us to this point? And how do we make sure that this doesn't happen again? And typically it's been missed somewhere during that year where it was like we were short 25 grand on this month, we were short 25 grand on this month, and we were short 10, 10, like whatever it equates to, right? But it's like those add up so quickly that we tend to miss them. So if you get to that mid-year and you say, okay, this is what I have left, let's reassess.   and look at how long do we have. Kristy, something I do get asked a lot is, well, what do we do when doctors are like, let's take this vacation time? Or I've got associates who are like, oh, guess what? Next month, I've got CE and I've got this and I've got office managers and doctors that are calling me and pulling out their hair. And they're like, I have a goal, but how am I supposed to hit this? So Kristy, what do you suggest when they are off?   goal, they're off track, they've got how much ever money that they need to make up and then they've got something looming, some sort of maternity leave or something we just didn't really account for. How do you have your doctors really account for that and put it back into their goals?   Kristy (11:02) Yeah, I love that we're talking about this subject and I know we tend to talk about, you know, bridging the gap when we're behind and we'll certainly talk about that because many times it's that but...   Also, don't forget to celebrate if you're ahead, you know? And so celebrate if you're ahead, but not just celebrate, take a look at what you did to get there so you can repeat those processes, right? And to your point, if we are behind, take a look and chunk it down. What would it take to bridge that gap? And if I have providers looking for time off,   The Dental A Team (11:28) you   Kristy (11:37) Factor that into the equation. If we're behind already and we take this much time off, what now will the gap be? So for associates, for owner doctors, ⁓ it may not be easy to find a temp for them, but for hygiene, it's very easy to say, if we're ahead, do I really need to find a temp? Because we're ahead in our goal. Or,   The Dental A Team (11:44) Okay.   Yeah.   Kristy (12:02) Do I need to find a temp because we're behind   in goal? So it helps you make those strategic decisions. ⁓ with that being said, for owner doctors and associates, if we're behind, can we add in anywhere? Could we add one more hour to the day or could we work a Friday versus taking it off? What would that do in order to take that week off? And or can we change our block scheduling?   The Dental A Team (12:19) Yeah.   turn.   Kristy (12:32) some bigger rocks. Take our mind back to during COVID when we only did emergency treatment. It's okay if we push a filling off here or there if it means adding that big rock so we can make up for the loss, right? It's not that we're not going to do the filling, but could we put it in a month where we're already at goal, if you will.   The Dental A Team (12:39) Yeah.   Yeah,   yeah, I think those are really great points and something you said there was like work the Friday instead of not working made me think of I do have an office that does a few offices that do this, but one particular does really well at looking ahead one to three months consistently, if not further. But they're always looking at OK, if we want to as an office, take this time off or if we have to take this time off for CE or whatever, are there days in the month that were closed that we could open to make up that production?   And think that's massive. And again, like you said, I'm going to mimic it. You like definitely celebrate when you're ahead and then look at what does that mean? Now, something I do steer away from, and I know, Kristy, you do too, is changing the goal because you're ahead. So that doesn't mean next month you do 120 instead of 160. It just means great. We've got padding for if we need to utilize that. So if the time comes, I know I had a practice in February that by March they were like,   How are we so short? When they looked at it, they had hygienists that had called out sick. They had an associate dentist that was out for a week. They had a hygienist that was on surgery. They lost almost $60,000 just in like crazy schedule happenings that they weren't truly prepared for. And so that can happen at any point. So if you're ahead and then you get to November and it's like, wow, this is kind of crazy.   you can account for that. if you get to December and you're so far ahead that you're like, hey, actually, like, we're going to take two weeks off or we're canceling everything for two weeks because we're good. You want to be able to have those flexibilities. so, Kristy, I think it's brilliant the way you have them constantly looking at them. So your practices are always looking at their KPIs, their measurables of where have we gone? Where are we trying to get to? And what do we need to get there so that we can constantly strategize and figure out   a new route for that. Now, what do you suggest if we're, I don't know, say $300,000 short, whatever, a hundred, I don't care how much it is, but we're getting towards the time of year, we tend to forget this, that June to August timeframe is a good time to look at your goals because September to December can get a little wild, in my opinion, within dentistry. So if they're a little bit short here or a lot of it short,   What do you usually suggest to the doctors going into that kind of holiday season, which is freaking around the corner, which is crazy. How do you suggest that they start really preparing for that?   Kristy (15:22) No.   Yeah, well, number one, I like to start preparing early. A lot of people think, you know, we hit the September, September, right? And prepare early because we plant those seeds, right? And it doesn't have to be that way. So number one, looking at our unscheduled treatment, you know, who can we re-enroll that has already been in and we just haven't started treatment on?   The Dental A Team (15:36) huh.   Yeah.   Kristy (15:52) There's so many different avenues that we can start to look at and really with the goal of getting our patients healthy, tap into those resources. Or we have patients within our own schedule coming in that have unscheduled treatment. How could we add more on what we're already doing? Because we already have them here, you know, and capture more. The other thing that I was going to say, Tiff, is I do have a lot of doctors that are willing to work through a lunch hour.   The Dental A Team (16:00) Go.   That's a good point.   Kristy (16:19) You know, I know that's not gonna win fans with team probably, yet if we're behind on goal and we all are part of the goal, could we still honor lunch hours with team, but maybe we rotate through so we don't have to add another day, but just simply adding that procedure during lunch if it works for the team, you know? So there's so many different avenues, but if we fail to look at it, then we're already behind the game. But again, to your point,   The Dental A Team (16:19) Yeah.   Yeah.   Mm-hmm.   Kristy (16:47) starting now to start preparing for the end of the year and talking about what we have to do to bridge that gap, but tap into the resources we already have with the patients we already have.   The Dental A Team (17:00) That's brilliant. Looking at your unscheduled treatment is massive. And something you said earlier, Kristy, I'm going to pull back into the space right now. You said, look at what you've done that's worked, right? So look at what has gotten you here. Whether you're where you want to be or not, things have worked. And that's the space that is often missed in life in general. We're really great at looking back and seeing what could I have done better to have gotten a different result. But we often forget to look at what am I doing right?   that's producing the right result so that I can repeat that. And when you're looking at your unscheduled treatment, one, if you don't have a lot of unscheduled treatment but you don't have a full schedule, we need to look at diagnosis and new patients. So that's a space. And when you're not hitting goals, those are all spaces that we forget to look at. Often we're just like tackle the same day treatment, which works if you're diagnosing the treatment.   if you're getting the patients into the practice that need treatment. So a lot of times we might be behind goal and we might miss that there's something more underlying. It might be lost in marketing. It might be lost in the right new patients. I know I've got practices that are like, we're getting a ton of new patients, but they're clean patients. Fantastic. I love healthy mouths. I want everybody to have a healthy mouth, but I need dirty mouths. need unhealthy mouths.   to feed the production. And so being able to get that good mix takes a lot as well. So Kristy, to your point, like, are we celebrating the things that we're doing really well? And then the things that maybe aren't working to move the needle, are we really diagnosing what's truly going on there and tackling the root cause? A lot of times it's within the new patients, it's within the processes. If you've got a ton of outstanding treatment and it's not selling, why? Why aren't patients accepting?   If you don't have a ton of treatment and you don't have a full schedule, why? Is it under diagnosis or is it a lack of right patients? know Trish has a client right now. I've had the luxury of watching her consult this client and it's just been a lot of fun to see her take his, what's the word I want, like his, what are you seeing, his view and just shift it.   his attention, right? So he was getting the new patients, probably not as many as we'd love, but he wasn't focusing really heavily on the diagnosis, but wanted higher case acceptance, blah, blah, blah. So she really helped to shift. And Kristy, I've seen you do this too, shifting that focus back into, we looking at full mouth or did we get stuck on something? I've seen doctors do this where they're like, I'm going to do implants.   So we're only looking for implants and we're missing fillings. We're missing the like GP stuff that I know you don't want to do right now, but it's what fills the schedule. so, Kristy, to your point, really looking at what's working so that we can repeat that and diagnosing what's not working so that we can shift that and make massive impacts. Because sometimes I think that the money is missing because we've got something else is missing and we're maybe not focusing on the right things.   Kristy (20:14) Yeah, I love that you said that and you know something else that came to mind when you were talking is so many times we're looking at the dirty mouth, right? And healthy infected mouth or whatever but on our healthy patients It's a great time to take a step back to and say hey Is there anything you don't like about the shape size color of your teeth? So many doctors want to do cosmetic dentistry, but we never talk about it, right? So it's a great opportunity to also celebrate the healthy patient. my gosh, you've been coming for five   The Dental A Team (20:38) Yeah.   Kristy (20:44) years and haven't had a cavity, keep doing what you're doing at home, and this is a great time. Is there anything you'd like to change about your smile, right? And just by asking some questions, you could probably drum up more ⁓ treatment in your chair right there.   The Dental A Team (20:46) Yeah.   That's a brilliant idea. I do love that. You do well. This is what I'm talking about, you guys. I said it at the beginning. Kristy's like, yes, and I love that. And I use that. You say that a lot, Kristy. Words are insanely valuable and important, I think. And you say yes, and a lot. And I've noticed I've started doing that. So thank you for giving me that habit. But it's true. You're constantly thinking like, yeah, for sure, healthy patients. And you can still help your healthy patients in different ways. So Kristy, thank you for always having   that extra nugget, always thinking like, yeah, for sure. And also, this is what you could do. So, Kristy, I think it's invaluable. Our listeners, I know, picked up on it as well. And your clients, again, they're just, all of our clients are so lucky, but your clients are truly lucky to have you. you guys, I think our biggest action items, go look at your numbers, go look at where you are, where you're going, and what you need to do to bridge that gap to get there.   This is the perfect time of year to really prep the rest of the year and look at what are you offering your patients? Are you offering them everything? Like Kristy said, are we looking at healthy patients too and saying, hey, what else could you want to do? What else do you want to do? Are we looking at those options as well? Are we super focused on something right now? It's broaden your focus, change the game and figure it out guys. As always, Kristy, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for the invaluable information.   And listeners, thank you for being here. Whether you're a current client, a future client, or just here to listen, like you guys are so valuable to us and I hope that you really truly feel that from us. If there's anything we can do to help you, to support you, or guide you, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. Again, if you're not a newsletter subscriber, know that there's a slew of information in there. We write almost all of the newsletters from the consultant side ⁓ and we answer a lot of the emails that come through or the social.   requests and engagement over there too. So thank you everyone. Kristy, thank you and you guys will catch you next time.  

Ryan Isaac of Dentist Advisors returns to continue his discussion with Kiera about the future of dentistry, including options aside from DSOs. The question a practice owner should ask themself, Kiera and Ryan say, is what that individual wants out of their life — then consider the best platform to get you there. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners, this is Kiera, and this is going to be part two of mine and Ryan Isaac's conversation where we're digging into DSOs to sell to not to sell, all of that. And I truly am so excited for you guys here, part two. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.   Kiera Dent (00:17) why don't we take a pause and just think of like, what's the future of dentistry as now the future pioneers of dentistry? And what are we going to do to our profession? Yes, there's top dollar. Yes, there's things about it, but is there a way to influence?   and make sure that the integrity of dentistry can maintain long-term. I have no answer to that, but again, this is Kiera Dent sitting on my podcast where I think that there is a voice and an influence and like on Dentist Advisors podcast, is there a way that we can influence our industry in ways that will protect and still pay out? Because I'm like, even if you don't get the 10X EBITDA, you still can get a freaking great payout if you do your life right to where you can be financially set up.   Ryan Isaac (00:33) Mm-hmm. ⁓   Kiera Dent (00:58) still be able to sell your practice, not have to sell it in ways that could potentially hurt the industry. I'm not saying one's the right answer or the wrong answer. There's no judgment on my side. It's just, let's maybe think and consider how it could influence. Can we get people that could be private equity higher up that could help protect it? Those are things that, and again, I'm just Kiera Dent here in Reno, Nevada.   Ryan Isaac (01:03) Mm-hmm. Yeah.   Same, okay.   Okay. Yes. No, these are the questions.   You're totally influential. I think it's just in the opposite direction. ⁓ I don't think we can influence private equity. Private equity is ruthless in every industry. They don't. It feels dirty. It feels dirty. And I have a question for you, but I just want to say really fast. ⁓ I do feel like, yes.   Kiera Dent (01:30) It's dirty. It's dirty.   Is there a way though, Brian, you   don't finance better than me. Is there a way that there could become dentists that could become in private equity where they own it? Because once you, there's no way to insulate, you don't think. Because once you get to that level, you just, I mean, I've had.   Ryan Isaac (01:44) Yeah, but they'll do the same thing. I mean, they'll want the same thing.   Now, money's money. It's why capitalism runs   the world. mean, that's why, you know, it's like why it influences politics and money and business runs the world, you know? ⁓ Okay, hold on. There's so many good things here. Number one would be not every group will be a DSO, private equity backed DSO. And you know, many, many ⁓ clients and just dentists around the country who will end up being owners of   Kiera Dent (02:05) Okay.   Ryan Isaac (02:19) 20, 50, 100 group practices that will stay privately held and ran by owner doctors. That will be a chunk of this ⁓ group practice ⁓ takeover. So in that space, the influence can still be huge. ⁓ I think the chance to influence the integrity of private practice is in those who don't sell to DSOs.   I think it's in the industry, educated in influencing the industry for people who aren't going to sell and who are going to maintain control. Now, I do think that in the future, more and more dentists will be in a group. ⁓ are probably, yeah, be fewer and I can see why it would make sense to do that. There would probably be fewer and fewer people with just solo doc, solo location practices. know, some towns and rural places, that would be hard to do.   Kiera Dent (02:47) Mm-hmm.   I do too.   Ryan Isaac (03:15) So I think you're Dorothy, is that what you said? I'm Dorothy. I think that is possible, not with private equity, but with still the owner doctors that still exist and the group practices that are ran by dentists, not private equity back. I think the influence is still gonna be, I mean, if you took the projections of what will stay private,   Kiera Dent (03:20) Yeah, hi.   I agree.   Ryan Isaac (03:40) and then the chunk of the group stuff that'll be non DSO non-corporate, that's still got to be 40, 50 % of the industry eventually.   Kiera Dent (03:49) I would think so.   I mean, look at it right now. There's corporate dentistry within. And again, there's nothing wrong with any, because I have clients that are in corporate dentistry that run their practices like private. They take care of their teams. So it's one of those things I still think, like even if you are, and that's another way that we can influence this, if you are part of a private equity-backed DSO, you can still influence your practice. You're still the dentist working in the practice. You can still run culture. You can still run change.   Ryan Isaac (03:59) Totally. Absolutely.   Yes.   and hit it.   Kiera Dent (04:16) ⁓ I know the doctors I have, they're part of a very large group corporate and things that we have done together, like I work with them, they're my only corporate practice that I work with, but we have literally influenced the top tier CEO. They've asked what these offices are doing differently. They're taking things that I've helped bring into the practice and they've asked like, what's changed in your practice? Like we hired this girl who teaches us to run it like private practice. Their culture's incredible. We're even right now petitioning up to the top people because they're writing off things that you can actually   bill out to insurance that they're making them write off when it's like, actually, no, we can bill it as a non covered service and actually have the patients cover. So I'm like, I do still think whether you're in private equity, but I think you've got to be a strong enough doctor where you advocate for the rights of your patients and the rights of your practice. And I'm super proud of my client who does this because her and her husband, they go to bat and they're like, they write some pretty direct emails to the CEO of this and say like, hey, and they're a big enough force. Cause I mean,   Ryan Isaac (04:55) Mm. Yes.   huh.   Kiera Dent (05:15) They're the top tier practice in their area. have them making like, we are adding multiple millions to their offices every single year. But I'm like, I think that's also how dentists, even if you're in private equity, even if you're in group practices, I think at the end of the day, are clinicians and clinic, like you are, you are the product. And I think that they have, I think dentists have more say than they might realize that they do to influence the industry and keep it more positive and more ethical than it could be otherwise.   Ryan Isaac (05:38) Yeah.   Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree with that. We all know people who are in those group models that are still running like amazing, almost privately held practices. The other thing that's interesting that's different than medical, because it always gets compared to the medical field consolidation that happened, is medicine has a distinct difference and advantage in that they have hospital systems where gigantic campuses where they can house hundreds of doctors in one place, right?   It's just not that's not a thing in dentistry, which I think will will force it to stay a little unique, different than medical, because you can never have a giant campus building with, you know, 400 dentists. Yeah, like 500. I mean, I don't know. I guess never say never some some group might invent that and you know, like the dental campus of the city. I don't know. Yes, it's possible. But it seems a lot less likely. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (06:18) Mm-hmm.   500 off, you imagine?   Say hi.   I mean, dental schools have a lot, but   I'm like, okay, I think the piece that would be really hard is to justify 500 beds, like 500 ops. You've got your hygiene that's cranking. So you gotta have, in a 500 bed, would need, like, we can only see 500 patients a day. so you can only see if it's 500 a day, that's how many patients you could actually see. I don't think that would be a full city, and we're basically taking over whole city.   Ryan Isaac (06:55) Yeah.   No. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (07:03) And then you might   not be pulling out that much dentistry outside of all of that to be able to fill that many doctors in their schedules. Cause so much of it's hygiene run, it's like a two to one ratio that I think that would be the zone. ⁓   Ryan Isaac (07:07) No.   I love this analysis. Yeah, I   couldn't go that far, but there you go. That's exactly right. So I do think it'll stay different enough in nature because of that. ⁓ And yeah, I, to go back to the, love your question. We've been kicking this around a lot in dentists advisors and I want to reiterate the same thing. There's no judgment here. There's no right or wrong. For some people, it's absolutely the best decision to exit with the DSO and just find the right one. Take your time. ⁓   Kiera Dent (07:19) There you go.   I agree.   Ryan Isaac (07:43) to go through the deals with someone who really knows what deals look like, not just a friend or a CPA unless that CPA is looking at hundreds of deals. Call Brandon, right?   Kiera Dent (07:51) Seriously, I'm like, why? He's got like every flavor of ice cream available of DSOs for you. And like, what are your goals with your financial advisor? What do you need to retire? And then you make sure that the deal is going to actually get you that because like you said, Ryan, it's your greatest asset. And that's where to me, it breaks my heart when people do this. And I was actually, when we were talking about assets, ⁓ there was a stress test portfolio that I heard at a conference that I thought was really awesome that I think about often. so thinking about when you said like, we're investing into this stock.   Ryan Isaac (07:59) Yeah.   That's it.   Kiera Dent (08:20) portfolio, like we're basically putting so much of our biggest asset and so many of our dollars into one single stock. And they said, just stress test your portfolio. If my two biggest portions of my portfolio. Okay. So the two biggest portions right now. And I think about this often, even you and me, Ryan, if those two asset classes dropped yesterday, cause I always do like, if they dropped tomorrow and you're like, well, I'd freaking move things. No, if it dropped yesterday, so there's nothing you could do. Do you have the staying power for things to recover? So like, I don't need to liquidate my assets.   Ryan Isaac (08:24) in one single, yeah.   Mm.   Kiera Dent (08:50) can still have income from our other assets and buying assets that are down. So looking at that, and I think about that often, like, so if your biggest ones are in the stock market and in your DSO and both of those dropped yesterday, like that's all that's gone. Could you still be okay? And if not, maybe look at other ways to diversify that portfolio. I'm not an advisor, Ryan. So you speak to like, if you agree or disagree on that, because that's my thoughts on it.   Ryan Isaac (09:11) Yeah.   Although yeah, no,   that's a really ⁓ logical way to look at stress testing something. If the stock market disappeared as a whole yesterday, all, yeah, well, we just, every publicly traded company in the entire world would be gone simultaneously. We would all be in so much trouble. Like we just wouldn't have cell phone service or gasoline or, you know, like a million things. Yeah, for a minute.   Kiera Dent (09:26) You say that we're all gonna go to the apocalypse, like.   Good thing you're by the ocean. You at least have a good time there, Ryan. I need   to get out of Reno, Nevada for that one year fact alone.   Ryan Isaac (09:44) Yeah, yeah. For me, yeah,   it would work for a minute, but then we would have no grocery chains, there would be no shipping distribution, there'd be no trucking, there would be no like, you know, we'd be done within like a week. You know what I mean? So, but you're the logic of it is true. It's almost like what if we just looked at stress testing a deal, you know, and you said there's usually three parts in a DSO deal, there's the cash up front, there's usually some kind of earned back, or bonus system, that's usually a smaller piece. And then there's the equity piece.   And if one of those didn't exist, if one of those dropped off, what would this deal look like? And I think the question we have to ask is if the equity didn't hit, you know, if they don't get returns on multiples on their equity, like they're projecting and always, of course, the projections are huge, you know, always, always. If this does not come in like you expect, let's just say it's half of what they expected that which would be probably fair to say, or it's all you do is get your money back one day.   Kiera Dent (10:32) always.   Ryan Isaac (10:43) What does this now look like to you? Is this a survivable thing? And is this even something you would be interested in doing? But again, you said this before, I've been saying this, go talk to someone who knows what these deals look like, like Brandon. I'll give you an example. with a client a few weeks ago who had an offer. They were getting a lot of pressure from the group where this came from. They were kind of involved in like, well, I won't even say it. It was just a group of people of other dentists that were kind of pooling practices together. And this buyer,   Kiera Dent (10:50) you   Ryan Isaac (11:14) just a lot of pressure, a lot of hype, right? A lot of hype. And the deal as the details started coming through started smelling really weird. And even he was just like, I don't know. He talked to Brandon for 30 minutes and it became so obvious so quickly how bad this deal was. And now he's pushing the brakes a little bit. He's going to ramp up his profitability, work on the practices some more. He still wants to consider a sale, which is great with that's fine if that's still what you want to do.   Kiera Dent (11:38) Yep.   Ryan Isaac (11:43) But I think that conversation probably just saved him millions of dollars, literally in 30 minutes of conversation. So just talk to somebody, please, about these deals. There's every flavor out there. There's so many ways that they can twist and bend these things. And yeah, there's just a lot of moving pieces in there. So just be careful. Yeah, just talk to someone. Be careful.   Kiera Dent (12:02) I would like, and what   you said, also think like, make sure that you're also selling it for top dollar. This is something I really love about working with you guys, working with clients is if we know that there's a sell on the horizon, think one of the best things you can do is truly like pulling a consultant, pulling somebody. And like I was talking to a doctor the other day and they're like, KK, we want you to come in and help us like with our systems, but they're selling in a year. And I was like, well, respectfully as your consultant, I'm not going to sit here and deal with systems.   Ryan Isaac (12:13) Yes.   Please.   Kiera Dent (12:31) If you're selling to a DSO, odds are a lot of those systems they're gonna bring into you anyway. Our best thing we can do is make your life easy right now, boost your production, reduce your overhead, increase your EBITDA so you get top dollar on the sale while making it like amazing. Like we'll still put systems into place. We'll still take care of your hot fires with your team right now. But like, why not go, it's like, if I know I'm selling my house in a year and if I did a few things to make it exponentially higher.   Ryan Isaac (12:32) .   Yeah.   Kiera Dent (12:56) in the next year of my sell, why would I not do that now? And for us, it's not even like a house where I'm just painting the walls. We're literally boosting your production. We're pushing your overhead down. We're helping your whole team get on board for that. So that way your asset really is the best asset you can get. And we're not doing it in a hard way. So I know it feels like a push, but just know Dental A Team's way is ease. So it's like, it's going to be an exponential growth for you, but with like ridiculous ease. And most of our clients, we just did a huge study across the board of hundreds of our clients.   Ryan Isaac (13:13) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (13:24) And on average, they're seeing a 30 % increase in their production and a reduction in their overhead within their first three to six months of working with us. So like even if you have a year or two year timeline, that right there, so getting the right deal, making sure you're selling it at top, like squeezing the juice out of every single thing we possibly can get out of your practice. ⁓ But then also I feel like what happens in that scenario, Ryan, I see it all the time, is when we come in and we like powerhouse it up with them.   Ryan Isaac (13:34) Thank   Kiera Dent (13:51) They're like, wow, I'm working two days a week and I would make what this DSO was going to offer me and I don't even have to work. Why would I get rid of this practice right now to the DSO? That happens more than I can tell you because it's like they didn't realize it could happen this way. And I'm like, just tell me what you want. Like you want the DSO, you want to work two days. Why don't we build you that right now and like keep the asset that you've got and sell it when you want, which is going to make you the same amount of money as the DSO, but it's on your terms.   Ryan Isaac (13:59) Yes. Yep.   all the time.   Kiera Dent (14:20) So I think that like people don't realize that you can have the benefits of the DSO today. I think the only piece you can't have like, but I give air quotes on can't is like, you still are an owner, but I'm like, there's literally ways for you to sell to partners, have it pay out to you. And you can actually get rid of that ownership piece if you don't want it ⁓ and still have it be the same type of a deal. I think like, don't forget that there's also deals outside of DSOs that you can do internally. ⁓   Ryan Isaac (14:26) Yep.   Kiera Dent (14:48) but it is shocking Ryan how many practice, like I had a doctor and he's like, Kara, I'm going to get 5 million for my practice on this. And I was like, rock on in two years, we literally will make you 5 million net post-tax in two years. was like, literally, and that's net that's post-tax like in two years. I was like, this is not a good deal for you financially if you're going after the financial dollar. So I think just be smart with how you look at this because I don't know, right. And you do it to me all the time. You're like, Kara, yeah, go sell.   Ryan Isaac (14:58) That's what you're make in two years of income. Yeah. Yeah.   Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (15:17) but you can also just get the life you want and have your practice and your business run differently, why not consider that scenario too? So I think.   Ryan Isaac (15:19) Yeah.   Yeah, I'm,   yeah, okay. Sorry, finish your thought. I just like what you just said. I just love that. I was gonna ask you this exact thing. I was gonna ask you this exact thing. I was gonna say, Kiera, aren't there ways someone could step back and pause and say, why am I interested in selling to a DSO and then just try to create it through the work you guys do easily?   Kiera Dent (15:27) Okay, so yeah, take it.   100 % and right you do   it to me all the time. You're like Kiera. Well, what would you want your life to look like if you were to sell it? I'm like, I would care if you stopped if you sold what would your life look like? And I'm like, I do this. I do this. I do this. You're like, all right, then why don't we just make your business do that today? I don't think people realize how like you can manipulate your business to truly support the life, the finances, everything you want. Like it's shocking. I'm like just basically give me the North Star and we will manipulate the entire thing for you.   Ryan Isaac (15:59) Just do it.   Yeah.   Yeah.   Kiera Dent (16:14) in ways you didn't even know. like, I need Ryan to know our North Star where we need to get. Then we break it down to your, like what lifestyle you want to have. And then we just crank, like, it's like shake and bake. It's such an easy thing for us to do. And we're still doing it with like amazing ethics. It's under your control. It's your culture. It's your business. It's your life. But I mean, I have a doctor who's producing over 5 million a year, working two days a week, taking home DreamPaycheck and they were going to sell it to a DSO. And I'm like, it took us two years to get them to the offer.   and they're like, they're so happy and they're able to now, like you said, I think one of the best pieces on this is they got everything that they would have gotten from the cell. But in addition to that, they didn't lose everything that they've built to where now they can go build and create, like you said, the two day a week practice where they're having it, but they've kept their huge asset over here. And so I just think like, I don't know. I feel like there's so many more options on the table than people necessarily think there are. And so.   Ryan Isaac (17:03) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (17:12) Maybe don't listen to all the noise, be the smarter. It's like when everybody's doing X, maybe there's a Y that would actually benefit your life.   Ryan Isaac (17:16) Yeah. A million percent.   Yeah. I mean, Warren Buffett has a quote around that. It's a little bit different with stock market buys and sells and greed and fear. But yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah. I love that you said that. I assume. What are we like 45 minutes already? I assume that you probably want to wrap this thing up, but I wanted to end it with that exact question you went there, which is like, can't we do this? Can't you? No. I mean, that's not the job we do. The Dental A team can help design.   that what you're trying to accomplish that you think some private equity firms gonna come in and give you. And again, let's all just remember, private equity firms, ⁓ they don't love you.   Kiera Dent (17:57) It's true.   Ryan Isaac (17:58) They love your money   and they are not stupid. There's a reason why they gobble up every industry in the economy is because they make us believe they're just giving us sweetheart deals. Like, they're gonna give us so much money. Isn't it so crazy? Like, no, they're really smart. They're gonna get so much more money from you than you're gonna get from them. So if they want your thing so bad that they're gonna chase you down and send you offers and every time you decline, they're gonna be like, okay, wait, what about this one?   Kiera Dent (18:15) They are.   Ryan Isaac (18:26) They want it so bad. You must really be holding something really special. So how can you make that thing become your dream scenario without having to give it up? First, just consider that again, no judgment. There is no right or wrong. Maybe that is your path and that is best for you. Great. If you do the work and the, you know, the research and you're just sitting and you're asking smart people like here in the Dental A Team, you know, about all the details and you're asking yourself why through all this process, that's just, that's the whole thing. So I'm glad you   Kiera Dent (18:31) Mm-hmm.   Yeah.   Ryan Isaac (18:56) Assuming we're ending it soon. I'm glad you ended it with that because that's what I was thinking about   Kiera Dent (19:01) Well, and I'm glad I'm going around the same beach because I feel like DSOs can be such a buzz. I think it's, I don't know. I just thought about, I remember when Jason and I were graduating from pharmacy school and we had a lot of debt on us and it was so tempting to go the 10 year loan forgiveness plan. So tempting. And Jason and I decided like, Hey, we don't want to like hope and bank that in 10 years, we're actually going to get all this paid off.   Ryan Isaac (19:07) yeah.   Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (19:29) And if it doesn't happen, what's it going to cost us at that point? And so we elected to just go for it to pay for it and to basically have it like, it's within our control rather than someone else holding my future. And I think that's how I often live my life of like, is there a way that I can get my dream life or I'm not banking on someone else holding up their end of the deal, hoping and praying that their equity makes it and it's something that we can actually do with ease? Why not do that?   Ryan Isaac (19:33) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (19:55) Ryan knows it was a huge issue with me and Jason for about a year to pay off his student loans, but the growth and the life that we were able to achieve that we wouldn't even be done. We still would not even be done with our debt right now. And it would have ballooned and not all of the debt's being eliminated. Like there's so many things around these loan forgiveness programs that I think about that with DSOs too. You have so much banked in, the hope, the promises, like everything has to go right for this huge multiple to have it there.   Ryan Isaac (20:07) yeah. Yeah.   Uh-huh.   Kiera Dent (20:24) Is there maybe a few other paths that you could look at that might get you what you ultimately want, give it to you with more control on your side, and also be able to allow you just more flexibility and freedom. Again, no judgment. think what Ryan and I are trying to bring to the table is maybe just consider looking at things differently to see what's the best path for you. And I say like, right back at you, Ryan, use your financial advisors, know what your magic number is, know what you need, and then figure out which option is going to be that.   Ryan Isaac (20:48) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (20:52) while also providing you the dream life that you want. So Ryan, thanks for the riff today. It was a solid time.   Ryan Isaac (20:54) Yep. Thank you.   It almost felt like planned. was so smooth.   Kiera Dent (21:01) So, mean, it does help when we're good like peanut butter jelly. Like we're very aligned on how we see, that's why I think our clients work so well together because like Denali team clients going to Dentist advisors, it's amazing. We think on similar investment strategies and like just the planning and the protecting clients. And on the other side, it's, Hey, here's our financial number. Denali team literally can like give the gas and give the pieces to it of tactical. So thanks Ryan. was a good time.   Ryan Isaac (21:04) Yep.   Hmm.   We all want to do. Yeah.   Yeah. Yeah. We want to grow and protect that business and make it, you know, it's your whole life. Make it as good as you possibly can. You guys are so good at that.   Kiera Dent (21:34) Great.   Well, Ryan, if people are interested in connecting with you, how do they get connected? Because again, I think for me, before I even talked to DSOs, I always tell them like talk to your financial advisor, figure out your project number. That way you actually can then have even one filter on what deals you're looking for, what plan you need your business to be. So Ryan, how do they connect with you?   Ryan Isaac (21:41) Yeah, totally.   Million   percent. So I'll always say friends of the Dental A Team always can email me directly. I'll always have a conversation with anyone no matter what you're looking for. You don't have to be trying to hire a financial advisor. You might just have a few questions and I will always get on the phone and talk to someone. Just email me directly if you ever want to. Ryan at Dentist Advisors dot com. It's with an O.R.S. You can all just also just go to our website dentist advisor dot com. have   probably thousands of hours of free content on there, podcasts, articles, webinars, everything. You can book a consultation with our whole team there at any time. go learn as much as you want, listen to anything, tons of free stuff on there, but that's the best thing. I'm always happy to have a conversation.   Kiera Dent (22:29) It's amazing. And just so you know, Ryan does not take very many clients. So that's why I love him being on here. He's one of the founders. I think Ryan's one of the smartest people I've ever met. So definitely take him up on it. I know tons of our clients love meeting with Ryan because Ryan will tell you like, Hey, you don't need me or Hey, here's someone better for you. So I think it's just like, you're just an incredible human who ultimately cares and loves about these dentists, which is why I just appreciate you. So check him out. Yeah, of course. And for everyone listening, thank you for listening and we'll catch you next time.   Ryan Isaac (22:31) Yeah.   I do. Yep, I do. Thank you. Thank you.   Kiera Dent (22:59) the Dental A Team Podcast.  

All the new tech out there available to practices can be exciting to get your hands on. But if you’re not integrating things in a productive way, it’ll likely end up in the digital broom closet, collecting dust. Tiff and Kristy talk about the best methods to use when bringing a new program, software, service, etc. to the team. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:01) Hello Dental A Team listeners. We are so excited to be here today. I have a really exciting, I don't know, subject today on our content and I'm actually really, really excited to talk to you doctors about this and team members, office managers alike, everyone who's here, this is great information for you. I have some offices I'm gonna chat about and just some things that they're doing really, really well I think with their dental assistants that's really setting them apart from.   other practices that I've seen or worked with or other practices in their area specifically. So I'm really excited to talk with you guys about that today. And I have brought on with me, of course, one of my favorites. I love all of our consultants, you guys, but Kristy, I know I just love your heart, like your heart and your soul and the love you have for other people. I love having you on our team. And I think that   No matter what content we're talking about, you relate to it in some way or you find a way to love on our clients regarding it. But I think today, like, I think it's gonna be a really cool one to do with you. So, Kristy, thank you so much for being here with me today. How are you? You're in a new home. hope, gosh, everybody, if you are a client of Kristy's, I'm gonna brag on Kristy right now. And Kristy does not brag on herself often, unlike any of us do. But Kristy moved states. She moved...   She moved states, you guys, without anyone even knowing. I told Kristy, and I will say it again, if I didn't know you were moving, I would never have known you were moving. And I know your clients felt that same way. So you guys, if you are clients with Kristy's, if you see Kristy on social media, you want to write in, like, please give her some kudos because you literally never would have known that you moved entire states. And now you are in comparison in my backyard. It feels like I know you're still like.   Kristy (01:49) Yes.   The Dental A Team (01:50) hot minute from me, but ⁓ you're here in Phoenix with me. So welcome to Phoenix, Kristy. How are you guys doing? How was the move? How is your family? Tell me.   Kristy (01:58) Yep.   my gosh, we're doing wonderful. We're enjoying this weather. I know it's going to heat up pretty good this weekend, but we're enjoying it and just making the most of it. ⁓ Getting rid of boxes. How about that? We'll leave it at that.   The Dental A Team (02:11) Yeah, yeah, good.   I know you went through a garage over the weekend, you said, and it is hot, you guys. Like, I was freaking dying this weekend. I'm like, gosh dang it, why does Phoenix do this to me? But I love it. I'd rather, I have to remind myself all summer, I would rather be hot and like dipping in my pool, you know, or my community pool or my friend's pool or whatever. Somebody has a pool somewhere. I would rather do that than shovel snow.   any time of the day, any time of the year. So I will not complain too much about our weather.   Kristy (02:46) That's right, amen. I agree.   The Dental A Team (02:48) Awesome.   I love it. Well, I know a lot of people, you know, follow our journeys and I just think it's really special. So thank you again, Kristy, for the dedication you have to our clients, to our company, and to the results for clients and non-clients alike. You really worked your tail off to, like, you know, you integrated just family and work so well. I think while I speak on behalf of your family as well, I think you really do it seamlessly and every one of us really truly appreciate you. So.   That's my spiel on Kristy today, you guys. And I'm so excited to jump into this and you'll see it in your newsletters. If you're not subscribed, go subscribe because there's a slew of information in there. And just so you guys know, if you're not subscribed to the newsletters, you should be. Those newsletters, we actually write them. So the consulting team and our marketing team, we put a lot of work into those newsletters. actually, we write a lot of the content that goes along with those. know marketing takes like one a month, I think, but gosh, there's   anywhere between four and six newsletters a month, and they are written by us consultants. So you're always getting the most up to date, accurate consulting information as possible from there. And then we do utilize those similar subjects in our podcast here. So today we are going to speak to one of the newsletter subjects, but we're actually going to spin it just a little bit. So if you're not getting the newsletter again, go check that out because it's going to have different information than we talked about today.   Our newsletter focus, our subject here is really, really focusing on dental assistants and new tech and how dental assistants should integrate it or could integrate it and what that looks like and just what we've seen and what we recommend as a company and as consultants on that standpoint. But something I really wanted Kristy and I to focus on today and to really take a look at and kind of spitball between us some ideas is really integrating the tech because I know dentists.   I know most dentists, I know the dentists we attract as well, dentists I've worked with are just like so excited about new tech and new everything and we want the latest and the greatest and I love that. I think it's because I think dentists are artists and I think there's just a huge massive creative space within dentistry and for those.   individuals who want to be in like healthcare, medicine, but really have that artistic creative side, dentistry fits really, really well for you guys. And the new tech allows us that creativity and to be up to date. But then on the flip side of that too, for the healthcare space, you guys really want the most up to date technology to serve your patients and to serve your community. So I think those both of those reasonings are super massive. But what I see, and Kristy told me, you know, if you see this as well,   What I see most often is that doctors are gung-ho. They're like, they're on all the forums, first of all, all the forums. And I know my office managers are like, get him off the forum. But they're on there, they're on all the forums, they're getting all the information, and they're researching the heck out of everything. And then they're jumping, and they're saying, all right, I'm going to get it, and then I'm going to get trained on it, and then I'm going to come back, and we're going to use it. And...   They go, they get trained on it, and then they come back and, Kristy, what have you seen in your history? I you've been working with a lot of dentists. You've worked in office. You've worked consulting. What have you seen most commonly? Doctors getting new tech coming back. What do you typically see?   Kristy (06:16) you   It's multifaceted, think. I think that I see them getting very, very excited to implement it and show the patients the new technology and also for them to use it, like you said. Yet, I think they fail to remember that they sometimes forget to include the team on the training and then their team gets very frustrated. so quickly, ⁓ the doctor ends up getting frustrated because I've invested in this technology and ⁓ my god.   my team's not using it and all of a sudden it goes in the cupboard or you know they're not using it like they want to so ⁓ typically out of the gate that's what I've seen happen.   The Dental A Team (06:55) Yeah.   sure   I totally agree and I have to say I've been that person right I've been the dental assistant that's like I don't have space for this like what are you talking about I know how to take an impression I'm gonna keep taking an impression and then I'm gonna take my backup impression because I don't trust the scanner right and I'm like   double dipping and wasting time and just really afraid to like jump right in because I didn't, I wasn't there. I didn't get the excitement that the doctor did. I'm not on the forums and truth be told, like I'm just trying to survive. Like I'm just trying to get to the next patient, trying to take care of this patient the best that I can. And I'm trying to get to the next patient and keep a schedule on track and you like flooding this in and you being like, Hey, it's Monday morning. Like I learned this cool thing. We're going to implement this really is like, it's like,   It reminds me of like a clock spinning and you've got all these cogs and all these wheels and then you put like this little toothpick in there and it just like stops and it's like trying and trying and trying until the toothpick breaks, right? And then it can go again. But like that's what it feels like when you're in like go, go, go, and we're going to keep the flow of the schedule and we're going to do all of these things. And then you stick this little toothpick in the cogs and we're like, no, and we're like fighting against it. ⁓   until it breaks and we're like, okay, cool, this actually does help. But it takes a minute for us to get there, I think. And I do think that it's just so sad on the doctor's side in most cases, because you guys are so excited for this thing and you're like, this is going to change our lives and I just need you on board. And it can be so deflating. so number one, I love new technology. Number two, human nature is to say no and to slow down and to be like, nope.   things are great the way they are, even if they're not working perfectly or super well, they're working enough to get us to the next step. And so we're not always gonna be super on board to just change something. Change is scary and we're like, nope, I'd rather stay where I'm at, because this is comfortable, whether it's right or wrong, than jump on board with change. So in thinking about this, as we're writing the newsletters, I'm like, gosh, there's so many.   There's so many things we can talk about with the tech. Like you guys know what that is and we'll throw it in the newsletter. Like, yes, it's there, but what do do with it after the fact? And something I have seen, Kristy, that I've seen a few doctors this year, then one in particular, he's a go-freaking-getter, and he is like go, go, go all the time, and he pushes for the change and he does it really well. But something that I saw him do recently,   in the last like year to two years is as he's growing his tech. So he's layering on rather than whole new. So he's doing a really great layering effect, especially with like the in-office crowns instead of being like, we're going to do an office crowns and dentures. He was like, we're going to do in-office crowns. Then we're going to learn to design a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more. And now we're going to do dentures and we're going to learn to design. So one thing he's done well is he's been able to see the technology and then scale it back.   So like a reasonable learning capacity. Whereas I think dentists, your brains work that way. Your brains are techie by nature to a point. Like that's just, that's how your brains work. That's how you got through school. Not everybody is that way and that quick to understand things. Like my kid, he's gonna be an engineer. He looks at something since the day he could start talking. Like, I don't know, I remember him being like three years old and he's in the car asking me like, how does that?   work? And I'm like, I don't know. Right? Like, and so I'm like, how do you think it works? So then he's like, I think, you know, and he's constantly he's always done that, like he, or thought he had figured out how like traffic lights are put together, right? This was a funny story. Actually, he said, they take two giant bendy straws, and they stick them together. And that's how the traffic lights are built. And I was like, Yep, that's how they're built. But that's how his brain works. He's got that like, engineer.   thoughtfulness behind it, where I look at a traffic light and I'm like, thank God that's there. Like, thank God we're all stopping when we need to stop. I don't care how it was built or how it was put there, just that it works. So you bring new technology in, right? You've got Brody's mindset that's like, how does this work and why does it work and what's it going to do? Then you've got my mindset that's like, how do we get to the end? Like, what's, what are you trying to do with this? I don't care the mechanics of it, just like, what are we trying to do? And we get stuck. Now, if we had a   bunch of people on your team that thought the same way you do, right? So we've got a bunch of engineer Brody's running around, nothing would get done. Literally nothing would get done. You would just be talking about the process the whole time about how it could get done. It'd be theories running around and like, what if we changed this? And what if we took this tech that works and we'd like tweaked it? You would get nothing done. So then we try to, we try to take that mold and that learning style and smash it on top of people.   who don't necessarily think in that capacity. So what this doctor has been able to do is really take a step back and layer the technology and layer the training, Kristy. And then what he's been doing, I've noticed, is taking his team with him. And maybe not all of the dental assistants, right? Maybe the lead dental assistant and like one more so that two people know it. we're not.   We're not saying break the bank and send everybody to a course, but he has been able to take like two dental assistants to a course where he's learning how to design something or he's learning how to use a new scanner, how to use a new mill or a new 3D printer. Gosh dang it. Like I don't even know how to use those things, right? Because I'm not in office learning, but he's taking them and they are coming back with the knowledge. So then what he's done, and I've seen a couple of practices do this really recently with them, implant courses and   all kinds of new things. What they've been able to do is now it's not just the doctor, right? That one has all the knowledge. When are you going to trade them? Like, do you have time to do that? No, you actually don't, right? Now it's not just the doctor who knows everything, but it's also not just the doctor who is excited. And when you have people behind you in that excitement, one,   I think, Kristy, you don't lose the, like, you don't lose it as quickly, you don't get as deflated because you've got people there rallying with you. And two, Kristy, I think we can speak to this because we train teams. When you have more people behind the idea, it's easier for a group to follow. One person compared to three people on the same team is going to get everybody else following. So he's done a really great job at that. And Kristy, like,   from your perspective as a consultant, me just like if I was that doctor, how do you see that working for practices that you know? Like if we were to be able to implement this with more practices where they take them to these courses, how do you think that would change implementation in a practice?   Kristy (14:01) my gosh, huge. And I think you spoke volumes to also doctor explaining their why, why they're wanting that technology. So number one, when they can take them to the course, number one, I don't have to spend all the time rallying them and exciting them, right? That excitement's already there. All I have to do as the owner or, you know, doctor that wants the technology is explain why and what's the end result they want.   The Dental A Team (14:08) Yeah.   Kristy (14:29) Here's the thing, many times when you start to incorporate the team behind it, they have better ideas for implementation than we do. And when they come up with the implementation ideas, holy cow, it's half the battle, right? And they're brought into the process. All the doctor has to do is keep reinforcing why we're doing this, why we want to change, right?   The Dental A Team (14:36) Yeah.   Yeah, that's a good point.   Yeah, that's a huge point, Kristy, because it's like that brain thing again, right? Brody doesn't always have the quickest A to Z, that process, because he's thinking about every single little thing, whereas somebody else coming in can be like, okay, I can get on board with this, and I think we can get there this way. And between the two ideas, like you said, implementing different ways could really, really be beneficial. And probably, Kristy,   I would imagine get more people on board too, because if they're like, those are gonna be too hard, it's too complicated. Somebody else simplifying it, that would get me on board. You throw something complicated at me, I'm like, sure, I'll get to that. That's my procrastination. I'm gonna get to that someday. I'm gonna do everything else first because it's easier.   Kristy (15:41) Yep, I agree with you Tiff and here's the thing, doctor might short change. He might think, well, let's start scanning on every new patient and they're like, what the heck, we can scan every patient. So you may also limit what they're able to do if it's just your idea. So in you be the cheerleader, explain the end result and the why, but then incorporate them on how, how.   The Dental A Team (15:47) Mm-hmm.   Yeah.   Yeah, yeah,   that's totally, that's a good point. Cause I've actually seen that too, where they're like, let's practice on each other. And then they're like, well, why don't we just practice on the patients coming in? Like we'll practice on each other for sure, but we've got 16 patients coming in. That's two scans, each of us today. And I've seen doctors be like, ⁓ okay. Do you just have to remember, think, and Kristy, you spoke to this, like you don't have to have all the answers and you don't have to have all of the ways. You have a group of people here.   ready to rally behind you if you let them. I do think, Kristy, I think we both have probably seen this or actually experienced it ourselves as well. When you give people that space to also be creative and to have some creative control over whatever it is, you get better buy-in, but you actually get better, like stronger people. I know I'm stronger when I have the availability to create what I need. You give me, you tell me what you want it to be.   I can create what that needs to look like to get there. I'm just a better employee. Like, Kira loves me more when I'm bought in, and I get bought in by being able to say, okay, I see what you want. This is how I think it might fit in. And then coming to you ladies consultants and being like, okay, what do you see? And I think to speak to that from the dental assistant space, if you're taking, if you have the availability, you have the...   the capability to take your assistant with you, at least your lead, he or she then can say, fabulous, this is how I think we could train on it. This is how I think we could implement it. This is how I think we could get buy-in. And you've got that different perspective from someone who's living, breathing, and working in that space. And I have actually a doctor, I just thought about this this weekend. I think it's this weekend they're going.   He's doing a sedation course and I know there's a ton of doctors doing sedation courses right now or they've already done it. I've seen both spectrums. So I've seen the sedation courses. I lived the sedation course that they brought no one and had and I've seen it. I've the same doctor that does really well bringing assistance did the sedation course on his own and that's why he started bringing his assistants is because he did the sedation course on his own and saw zero traction. It was so hard.   because there was so much information that he had to bring home to them that then he was like, we've got to have this, this, this. And they're like, I don't know what those things are. Like, I don't know what this means. I don't know when you expect us to do this. So this weekend, I've got a dentist who's going to a sedation course and he's bringing, I think he's bringing all three of his assistants actually, which is going to be massive because then they're going to be able to say like, I'll take this on.   I'll take this on and really like divvy out those pieces and implement it so much faster. The biggest thing I think doctors struggle with is the implementation process and it's because they take it all on themselves instead of sharing that love. And Kristy, I know you work with a lot of practices and I know this is like not new information. It's just needing to be heard. What do you suggest for those doctors who are listening that are like, cool, but like, I don't know who I would take.   And then, so I don't know who I would take and then how do I pay for that? how do I budget that? What do you suggest for those doctors?   Kristy (19:27) Yeah, there's two parts to that tip. think number one, hopefully we're all doing performance reviews with our team and asking their goals, their professional goals. What are their growth opportunities for the year? If we're doing that, we kind of know the path that they're looking for, right? And hopefully through that, we identify areas where they want to learn. If we haven't done it, let's get it on the agenda to do it. But also,   The Dental A Team (19:53) That's a good idea.   Kristy (19:54) maybe reach out to the team and ask questions. Hey, I'm looking to learn more about this. Who else would be interested? You know, and before you tell them you're going, but I'm looking into this and just see who would be interested for one and ⁓ invest in them. And that's kind of what I heard you saying. When the doctors invest in their team, team members take great pride in that. Like I know   The Dental A Team (20:04) Yeah.   Kristy (20:19) I was privileged to have a lot of CE in the offices that I worked in and I always felt so honored, you know? And it just makes me a better me and I can come back and implement that in the office and help be a part of something bigger than myself. So investing in them is huge, but yeah. ⁓   The Dental A Team (20:29) Okay.   Yeah.   Yeah, I love that. I totally agree. think I was honored to be able to take a lot of CE as well. And it really did make me feel ⁓ invested in and special. And like I reinvested back in the practice. it's not to say that everyone's going to feel that way or going to utilize it that way. But I do think sometimes you just got to like go for it. You've just got to say, you know what, if it works out that way, fantastic. And if it doesn't, that's OK, too.   because I'm willing to see this through. I'm willing to go for it. And Kristy, suggestion of really chatting with the team and figuring out like, what is your future? What do you want this to look like? Where do you want to go? Kind of helps weed out to the people who are going to reinvest back into the practice or the people who are going to be like, that was cool, but whatever. You you'll be able to tell that. And budget wise with this practice that I just worked with, that's sending everyone to the sedation course, I make him do a CE.   a CE bucket. And so when he said to me, he texted me, he said, and when he listens to this, he's going to know exactly what I'm talking about. He texted and he said, Tiff, I want to send this assistant, like I've already got these two covered. And I said, sure, price it out. What's the flight? What's the hotel room? Do you have to pay extra for her to go to the course? What's your total cost? And what do you have in your bucket?   can you take that from there considering also any CE you're going to have in the future. You've already got two going. I don't care if you take that third. That's totally up to you if the availability is there. If the funds are there or you're willing to make that investment out of whatever funds you have, go for it. Just make sure you're always looking for that. So I do always, always, always say make sure you're dumping into some sort of a CE bucket for those pieces. And a lot of times doctors will think like, well, the CE course only costs this much.   You got to think of your travel as well. Just like when we come in office to you guys, when we talk to you about your platinum model subscription here with Dental A Team, where you're getting a one-on-one consultant, we consider all of those pieces too when we know we're going to be traveling to you. That's always considered in the cost of your Dental A Team membership. So same theory, same thought process, just make sure it's all bundled together and you know all of the pieces.   Kristy, I think I love the way we spun this one. If you're not getting the newsletters, please make sure to let us know and we'll make sure we get you subscribed because I do think this one is off the cusp of the newsletter and the newsletter is going to have a ton of really great information as far as actual technology. Our biggest piece today, Kristy, I think we nailed it, was really, really honing in on how beneficial it can be to one layer.   your CE, so layer your courses, layer your technology, make sure that it makes sense and that it goes in a trajectory that truly benefits the practice, team and the patients. And then really making sure if you can get your team members there to do it. Just gets people on your side, get people that can help you implement it when they know the knowledge. It happens so much quicker. I can quickly say we did sleep together as a team, we said.   and we took two people out of 17. When I was in office, and this was a long time ago, know, so sleep has come a long way, but two people out of 17 coming back was still really hard. So just make sure whatever it is that you're doing, whatever technology you're about to implement, whomever you can bring that will continue the progress and get people on your side, we can do it, invest in it, it's worth it. Kristy, any last words or anything you want to summarize that I didn't hit on there?   Kristy (24:23) No, I think we did a good job there. I guess the only pearl that I would say is then when you bring it back into the office, rally together, gamify it. Maybe put a quantity of we're going to do this many and just celebrate when you reach your goals.   The Dental A Team (24:41) Yeah,   that's a great idea. I love game of buying things. That was brilliant. Awesome. Thank you, Kristy. And thank you, listeners. As always, we are here for you guys. If you have any ideas or any hopes, dreams, wishes, desires on podcasts that you would love to hear more about, more ideas or anything like that, please don't hesitate to read to write in. We get those a lot at Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. So send us what you want. And as always, leave us a five star review below, letting us know that you did enjoy this and also   I would love to hear your stories. If you guys are sending team members, taking team members, or you're hesitant to, please, please, please, please write in. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. Just like the newsletters, we do answer a lot of those emails that come through on the consultant side. So just let us know how we can help you and we'll catch you next time.  

Kiera is joined by Ryan Isaac of Dentist Advisors to dive into DSOs. They discuss such questions as: Are they the best financial choice for your practice? The best life choice? Are the horror stories true? And so many more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and I am freaking jazzed for today's podcast. It has been way too long. Me and this guest talk quite often on like life and personal and business, but podcasting it's been a hot minute. I've got Ryan Isaac from Dentist Advisors, my personal advisor, one of my dearest friends. I think we're siblings in another life. Ryan, welcome to the show today. How are you?   Ryan Isaac (00:07) Mm-hmm.   Thank   Thank you.   I'm really good. just realized I was trying to hit mute and cough, but I hit like a chapter marker instead. So there you go. To your listeners or your ⁓ editing team, then there's a chapter marker while I'm coughing. So in your intro. Yeah. Tis the season.   Kiera Dent (00:35) You're welcome. Yeah, that's fine. I'm   okay with it. This is real life. We're sitting on, I mean, Ryan, you're sitting on the couch. I should get like my posh chair. I've been considering changing up my podcasting zone. Yeah, of course. All of us can see it. We're excited for that.   Ryan Isaac (00:40) Hahaha   Can I show you? Can I just give you a little vibe check here? I mean, it's actually, that's   the ocean. I'm on a little summer getaway for a second. So yeah. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (00:54) my gosh.   That's amazing. So that's Ryan's   life. Ryan's living his rich life over there. He's like truly. So, okay. If you're new to the podcast, Ryan is my personal advisor. Like truly he actually works on. We talk about my life. He's helped me make some really good decisions and not make some bad decisions. So I feel like financial advisors. My best advice is you gotta just find someone you trust. And I know Ryan is way more conservative than me, but cares about me as an individual so strongly. And Ryan, huge kudos to you.   And so we talk about it a lot, but something we talk often is like, what's our rich life? And I remember Ryan for years, you were like living in your van, truly driving to California all the time to be by the beach, because you love surfing so much. So it just makes me so happy to see that you are living your best life by the ocean. You're doing what you teach all of your clients to do of living their version of a best life. Something that we try to do in dentistry and dental team too, like, hey, let's help your business provide you the best dream life you want. So that's Ryan.   Ryan Isaac (01:36) Yeah.   Thank you.   Yeah, yeah.   Yeah, thank you. And there's no there's no right way to do that. I mean, everyone has their own thing that's worth the money or worth spending on. We're just kind of joking around about this, too. There are people who will sit in ⁓ small rentals or apartments on millions of dollars because to them having lots of security and liquidity is more valuable than houses or everyone's got something different. But, you know, we're all we're all chasing it, hopefully.   Kiera Dent (01:57) Catch y'all.   I think it's called the like emotional ROI and what helps you sleep at night in your financial world. So Ryan and I usually get on the podcast and we'll talk about finances. I mean, obviously dentist advisors, Ryan do a spiel. What is dentist advisors? Just so people know. I think you guys are financial advisors for dentists specifically. I'm not a dentist, but I can speak honestly, but a spiel. And then we're going to actually go like a hard left turn of what we're going to talk about today. Like really.   Ryan Isaac (02:26) Ooh. Uh-huh.   Yeah. Thank you. ⁓   Yeah, yeah, our   on ramps coming up here really soon. We got to get over it. We got to get into the right lane. Dentist advisor started ⁓ almost A Team years ago now with me and Reese Harper. Shout out to Reese Harper. And yeah, we were dedicated to being ⁓ an independent fiduciary fee only ⁓ advisor for dentists to manage investments and give financial advice. Ultimately,   Kiera Dent (02:51) Yep.   Shout out to Reese.   Ryan Isaac (03:17) you know, a dentist path through school and debt and taxes and all the stuff they go through, ⁓ you know, buying a practice, building businesses. There's no reason why all of that should not pay off every it should pay off for every dentist. There is enough money to be made in dentistry. And so our job really and you kind of said this with the you know, in the intro, ⁓ I really do feel like just protecting my clients, you know, and that's a philosophy that we've.   built into our business. There's no reason why dentists shouldn't make it to the life they want and to the finish line financially. so, you know, ⁓ it's more about consistent, small, good decisions for long periods of time and avoiding like a few big mistakes that could derail you forever. So yeah, we have a custom financial planning process, ⁓ a lot of like reporting and data, and we just manage and track ⁓ dentist finances and make sure they end up in a good spot, safe and healthy and   Happy, hopefully.   Kiera Dent (04:15) which I love about you guys, Ryan, and I really think you guys do a great job. And this is something you've taught me. And we have a friend who said a great quote that I feel should be your quote. I can't give it like, so you can take it and like make your version. But they said like regular investing is like vanilla ice cream. It won't make anyone jealous, but it always tastes good. And I felt like that's such a great way to look at how you've taught me how to invest. ⁓ At the end of the day, it's just a small, consistent thing. So I think Dentist advisors does really well. And Ryan, something you've done for me. ⁓   Ryan Isaac (04:24) well. Okay, okay.   Mm.   Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   .   Kiera Dent (04:44) Like it's so dumb, but I know you're watching me and I know like when I, like you're really not watching me, but I feel like you're watching me.   Ryan Isaac (04:49) Yeah, well, let's   hold that disclaimer here for a second. I see your numbers. I see your accounts. I see your emails. Every time you save money, I'm like, Kiera, good job in the email thread. Gold stars. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (04:53) Like, I know he's not, like, he watches my account for sure.   That's   all it is. And I just know having Ryan there where I need to send it in every single month of what we're going to invest. We've talked about the plan has been such a game changer for me. So that's why I love Dentist Advisors. And like we said, we're now like taking our off ramp because Ryan and I want to talk about DSO sales. I think this definitely implies to a financial advisor. We have a lot of clients that we send to Dentist Advisors. We work such hand in hand with both sides. Like we love what you guys do. You love what we do. It's   Ryan Isaac (05:19) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (05:30) Truly like the best peanut butter and jelly sandwich or whatever your favorite. If you want this to be meat and cheese, peanut butter and honey, whatever it is, I think it's the best duo. Yeah, exactly. That is the best. Captain Crunch, but would you rather Captain Crunch or Reese's? Or.   Ryan Isaac (05:37) Captain Crunch in 2 % milk, you know.   No. I would actually say   fruity or cocoa pebbles, to be honest with you. Or cinnamon toast crunch. Can we arrive there? Okay.   Kiera Dent (05:52) We both disagree on that. So cool. Okay, can handle Golden   Grahams or are we like back to the s'mores run? Remember the s'mores Golden Graham?   Ryan Isaac (06:00) Yeah, I do remember   the scores. How are we like not landing on the same one at all? What about honey butches of oats? Wow. Okay. ⁓   Kiera Dent (06:05) It's okay. That's fine. I'm not like the biggest serial fan and I go through phases. I love Lucky Charms, but I'm not joking.   Those marshmallows give me the chills. Like I can't crunch into it without it being like full body chills. So I don't know. weird. But back on this. So we've actually had a lot of clients that are debating of do I sell? I sell to a DSO? And I'm like, talk to freaking Ryan.   Ryan Isaac (06:18) Yeah, it's like biting Styrofoam. Okay. All right. Okay. Okay. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah.   you   Kiera Dent (06:32) I don't know what you want to do for your retirement. I have no clue how this is gonna impact you with your taxes. I don't know all the stuff, but what I do know is I'm a freaking miracle girl, so we're gonna get you top dollar for your cell, but like let's talk DSO. Cause also like DSO to not DSO, like I don't know Ryan, there's a million things. So let's Rift. You wanted to talk about this. I love this. Let's do it.   Ryan Isaac (06:41) Yes.   Yeah, yeah. Yeah,   well, and so you said something a few minutes ago about ⁓ dentist investments. And yeah, like our job is to help manage investment money for people ⁓ in a really long term kind of boring way, if we're being honest. But yeah, it's very yeah, it's just like it'll be there forever. Just let it do its thing. But the biggest investment any owner is going to have is their practice. And that is the thing   Kiera Dent (07:08) vanilla ice cream ish.   Ryan Isaac (07:18) is why you and a team is so important because the thing they should protect above everything is their practice investment, their business investment. There's nothing more impactful to a dentist's entire life and not just their money, but their entire lifestyle, probably their mental health, their wellbeing, where and who they spend their time with. So it is by far the most important factor in all of this. And so the world that we're in now is that   DSOs are an option to sell to, to work with, to become a part of. They are in some shape or form, you know, supposed to become the majority of the industry in the future. I think that's a broad category. think the category is more like group practice will become the majority of the industry. I'd love to hear what stats you've heard and what you actually see. think people talk about, you know, 60 to 70 % consolidation in the industry.   becoming some kind of DSO or group practice. ⁓ yeah.   Kiera Dent (08:19) Yeah, I was actually at an AI conference with   that just literally this last week. And they said that they're estimating 65 % of the market will become in the DSL world in the next like five to 10 years. So I think a lot of people are expecting, which is so funny to me because I remember, gosh, I think I was Mark, this is a long time ago, we were at the dental college. And so we're probably talking like,   Ryan Isaac (08:32) Uh-huh.   Yeah, okay.   Kiera Dent (08:46) 2018, 2019, I remember talking to the students, like, what do you think is gonna happen? And I'm like, I know I'm unpopular, because even Mark wasn't on board with this. And I'm like, I think I'm unpopular, but I'm pretty confident DSOs will be the future. And they're like, you're full of it. They're like, there's no way. And I'm like, I mean, I'm not emotionally invested in this, but if I look at what's going on, my husband's in healthcare. This is what happened to pharmacies. This is what happened to mom and pop shops, like for medical.   Ryan Isaac (08:57) Mmm.   Yeah.   Kiera Dent (09:14) I cannot think for one second the dentistry and with the EBITDA like offers that you're getting, it doesn't matter. And Jason, were talking about this the other night. I'm like, even if doctors want to have a legacy practice, that's great. You sell to this person, but this person now is younger. They have more debt and DSOs is like one bad day and this DSOs right on their doorstep. They're going to sell. Like it's just, I mean, you've got to some really strong guts around you to not think about a DSO. And I think DSOs,   Ryan Isaac (09:42) Hmm.   Kiera Dent (09:44) can often hit you at emotional times. Like Brian, you know me. There have been times that I told you like someone offered me a buck for Dental A Team, they could have it like one bad day. It's just like shirt. Like everybody has it in business ownership. So I think that that's where the DSOs are super attractive to people. But like I was talking to an office yesterday who's considering working with us and they're like have a one year buyout. And they're like, we're thinking about doing this DSO. And I was like, all right, but like what's your ultimate end game? What are you trying to achieve?   Ryan Isaac (09:46) Mm-hmm.   yeah. Yeah. yeah. We all have those days. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (10:12) you met with other people to talk about DSOs, there are other options and he's like, well, it's too big for these partners to buy. I'm like, well, it's actually not like there's ways for partners to buy you out if you want. think it's just, DSOs feel like the easy button, but I don't know if they're really easy. And I think that that's where I'm a little bit on the fence and I'm super jazzed for us to rift on. Is it really the best financial choice? Is it the best life choice? I don't know, Ryan, you know, the finances more than I do. just.   Ryan Isaac (10:14) It's on.   Mm-hmm.   Same. Yeah.   Yeah.   Kiera Dent (10:40) I do good job of helping people get their assets where they want them to be. So they have choices and options of what they want to do.   Ryan Isaac (10:42) You do.   Yeah, so I think, you know, it makes a lot of logical sense, especially the way it started with DSOs, that it would have gobbled up a lot of the industry. Hearing 70 % made a lot of sense to me. Maybe we're just in a dip in a lull, which we totally have become, we've entered into that because of the, you know, the debt and rate situation that happened over last few years in inflation and, you know, just interest rates. Money got really expensive. It was hard for a lot of companies to grow across a lot of industries.   And, uh, but, and I, I'm, uh, I want to say these statistics correctly, uh, from smarter people than me in the DSO space. I think there's something like maybe, you know, 350 to 400 technical DSOs in the country right now. And I've heard in multiple sources that up to a third of them are in some kind of financial receivership right now. Meaning, and I know you've seen this with clients too. DSOs have grown and they purchase and they borrowed money and then   rates hit them and they grew too fast. They went ahead of themselves and they defaulted. And ⁓ there are some major DSOs, huge ones that I did not ever think would happen that went into default that are going bankrupt that are changing ownership. ⁓ People are losing their equity money, they're not going to get their payouts. ⁓ And they're they don't own their practices anymore. I mean, there, we have some clients in that situation. So   Yes to the consolidation in the future of that because of just that's the nature of economy sometimes in industries. And I don't know if it's going to hit 70. I don't know. It makes me wonder. ⁓ Those multiples are down a lot than they than they used to be. And they'll probably you know, they'll probably fluctuate, come back up a little bit more when money gets easier. ⁓   Kiera Dent (12:22) I don't know anything.   Ryan Isaac (12:36) Also, I think people are getting a little bit wiser to it. Do you see this? I mean, let's say three to five years ago, it was the most exciting thing to get an offer sheet across your desk and be like, know, some multiple of you, but this is insane, I'm done. I do find people way more hesitant and not as excited about that number anymore. What have you seen with that when people see those initial numbers?   Kiera Dent (12:47) Made it.   think people are way smarter. think the grads coming out of school have been trained on business a lot more than say dentists 20, 34 years ago are trained and not to say dentists 20, 30 years ago weren't. I just think it wasn't like we weren't talking EBITDAs. You weren't selling like this. So you didn't there was no need for it. ⁓ And I think in the past, I think the reason people are more skeptical right now, Ryan, is because they're hearing the like horror stories coming through. So people are like, hold on. Maybe it's not as like   Ryan Isaac (13:12) It's different. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (13:28) rosy as it was. I honestly like DSOs might be a little bit of dentistry's dirty secret. Like there's a small piece of me feeling that way and not all DSOs I'm not here to blanket statement it, but I do think there's like, think the dentist is the one getting ripped off in the whole scenario. like, because Ryan helped me, this is where I, guys welcome. This is what Ryan and I used to talk about off camera, but I'm just going to like have the conversation here because I'm curious. So your clients, okay, so hold on.   Ryan Isaac (13:43) Mm-hmm.   Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, huh?   Kiera Dent (13:58) answer your question, no, they're not as excited about it. And also I think that they're being flooded with a bajillion offers. And so almost like overwhelm of who the heck do I have? Who do I trust? Who do I know? 400 DSOs out there. They're being bombarded every single day. I have heard dentists tell me they get four to five offers every single day of a DSO, which is why I'm like one bad day, you click open an email and like bottom, bottom, there you go. So I do think Bron and Man.   Ryan Isaac (14:02) Yes.   Yep. Yeah.   Yeah, you're done. Like, yeah, that's the buyer. Yeah, take it. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (14:22) Brandon Moncrief with Dental Transitions is probably the smartest DSO man I've met and I think you and I have circled. He's really brilliant on like who he knows offers that you can get like he kind of knows how to navigate the DSO world of what you want, which I think is awesome. But what I'm curious on Ryan. Okay, so you said you have clients. So when you sell to a DSO, there's lots of different makeups of how they can do these deals for you. But let's say there's I think the most standard one I usually hear is they pay you about 50 % of your practice is worth like you're giving it to them.   Ryan Isaac (14:24) Yes.   Yeah, I still send people there. Yeah.   Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (14:52) You also have them 50 % in equity in their business, hoping like with stock shares, hoping that it builds and that's like basically your payout. So it helps with tax. It helps with like future investments of the EBITDA. Those are the things that they're going to be dealing with. But my question is, so like your clients, they sold, they don't own their practices anymore. They're an associate there now ⁓ and they're getting paid. They don't have to do the management, billing's taken off of them, hiring, all that. But let's say these, so let's say I sold to Ryan Isaac DSO.   Ryan doesn't have a DSO just for clarity, but let's pretend I'm dentist. We got to make sure I don't want him getting in trouble. He's a financial advisor. So Ryan doesn't have it. okay, we're selling, okay, lies. We're selling it to Captain Crunch DSO. All right, let's just go safe. Captain Crunch DSO. Captain Crunch buys me. I'm now, I got my 50 % payout. have 50 % equity in Captain Crunch DSO and I'm now working as a dentist there, but I don't own my practice anymore.   Ryan Isaac (15:23) Yeah, just so we're clear here. Yeah, yeah. I've highly regulated. Yeah, might be in trouble for that.   Kiera Dent (15:49) Captain Crunch DSO is growing, growing, growing. Everything's looking good. I've got my stock in it. Captain Crunch loses its funding. They go bankrupt. What happens to me? Because odds are they go bankrupt. Another like lucky charms DSO is going to come buy Captain Crunch. Like they get a penny, dollar. What happens to me as the dentist when Captain Crunch goes under, but then lucky charms comes to buy me. How does that work for me as a dentist?   Ryan Isaac (16:02) Yeah.   Yeah,   I'm watching that happen right now with a gigantic national specialty DSO with some clients. And what has happened is that their equity money is likely gone. So they got their payout money.   Kiera Dent (16:19) Mm-hmm.   Even   with Lucky Charms coming in to buy it. My equity money's gone because it was with Captain Crunch. Do you love that I did cereal for you?   Ryan Isaac (16:28) Thank   I love it. It's so good. And I'm trying   to like, like who's more evil in this hierarchy, you know?   Kiera Dent (16:35) I think Lucky Charms isn't more evil. Lucky Charms is one who capitalized. They saw a dill. They don't care about the dentist. I'm not saying that they don't, but it's like hungry, hungry hippos. One goes out, someone's going to come buy it all. That's what they're going to do.   Ryan Isaac (16:37) Who's more well capitalized? Yeah.   Yeah.   Yeah.   Yeah, this   would be such a good question for Brandon again, and I'll just second that every time someone has questions about deals, or they want to compare things, ⁓ or get to know the space a lot more, I send them to Brandon. So just find Brandon Monacree, if he's on all over the internet and all of our content. Yeah, there you go. So it depends on the structure of the deal. It depends on the fine print and the paperwork. ⁓ In the ones I'm seeing right now, these dentists   Kiera Dent (17:04) dentaltransitions.com. Yeah, he's everywhere.   Ryan Isaac (17:17) lot, their practices are not there. So their practices are still gone. And they likely are not going to they're definitely not going to get any return on their equity. Some of them depending on how early they got in might get their equity back or, or parts of their equity back. But a lot of it's just, you know, when another company when a big financial company comes in to save a bankrupt company, it's ruthless, you know, I mean, they're they're cutting and they're scrapping   as much as they possibly legally can. they'll do that, of course, because that's good business for them. So what I'm seeing, and again, I'll just say that it's probably different in every single scenario of this. But what I'm seeing is one that happens. ⁓ These dentists are losing their practices, they're not getting any return on their equity money, and many of them probably won't even get their full equity back. Luckily, some of my clients that I'm thinking of were in early enough and the fine print of their deals was good enough that they're going to get some of their equity money back.   Kiera Dent (17:48) course.   Ryan Isaac (18:15) ⁓ that's it. They're done. So what really happened in that transaction was they got front loaded a certain amount of years of income, paid some taxes, paid off their debts and lost their practices and worked a job for three or four years at a very low salary compared to what they produce. ⁓ many of them got really burned out, bombed out, kind of lost their fire and spark for the work. ⁓   And they're back to square one. Some of them have enough money to be finished. What is interesting though is even the ones who have enough money to be finished are still contemplating starting or buying another practice where they can legally and doing like a really chill lifestyle two day a week thing. Really common. Other people will fully lose their equity. And in a situation, again, back to your point, a lot of people are   Kiera Dent (18:54) and   Ryan Isaac (19:05) Maybe it's not as excited about this. The multiples aren't what they were. Then they could come back. I don't know. A lot of people just say the longer this goes, the smaller the multiples will become, which is, yeah. No, we're definitely not. And so now we're talking about an offer where someone's coming to you to take away like your main, main asset, your cash cow, the biggest thing in your whole life. They're going to front load five or six years of income. You have to pay taxes and pay off your debt with that money first.   Kiera Dent (19:13) which I would agree on that completely. I don't think we're half as high.   Ryan Isaac (19:33) The deals that you mentioned, some are 50-50. I've seen them in thirds where it's like third buyout, third earn out where you have to keep producing and then a third equity. I've seen them 70-30, 60-40. They can really be any shape or size. ⁓ Yeah, but they're smaller. And so now we're talking about, you know, five or six years of front loaded income. You pay taxes, pay off your debt, and then you just hope that this company that bought you and essentially what's happening if you think about it.   Kiera Dent (19:48) They really are.   Ryan Isaac (20:02) You're taking like seven figures of money and you're putting it into a single stock. You're investing into a single stock and it's a very small privately held company. I know it feels safe and secure because it's your field, it's dentistry, know, all these things are, but you're taking seven figures of your money and you're putting into one single company where right now maybe up to a third of these companies are failing.   Kiera Dent (20:08) Thank   Ryan Isaac (20:30) It's not not a gamble, you know, and the whole kicker in all these deals, as you know, and your audience knows, Kiera is all in that equity piece. Everything else is just front loading your income for the next five or six years and taking away your ownership. And then, you know, really changing the nature of your career and your work. And it really does change people. It changes. And I'm not saying it's always for the worse, but it is change changes, teams changes, the patient experience changes, the culture and the vibe.   Kiera Dent (20:34) huh. ⁓ huh.   Mm-hmm.   Ryan Isaac (21:00) And so if that one little equity piece does not pan out the way that they say it's going to, ⁓ you know, that's the part that everyone's kind of wising up to. And if you're under, let's say, your late 50s, if you're younger than your late 50s, I think it's becoming a tougher decision for people to make. in late 50s or above, it's kind of like, I'm done anyway in three or four or five years. Might as well get top dollar.   even if the equity doesn't fully pan out all the way, it might be more than a private buyer. But even then, I've seen the math on a lot of things and like, it's close. And yeah, you've seen it all too. So yeah, it's tough. It's tough to watch the ones that fail. ⁓ Some of these, some of these, and you've probably seen, we're not going to name anybody, but you've probably seen them too. Huge practices, multi-location, huge DSOs that now...   Kiera Dent (21:25) Mm-hmm.   Agreed.   Mm-hmm.   Ryan Isaac (21:52) own these practices. And okay, here's a question for you. What do you think is going to happen, let's say 10 years down the road or longer, when all these DSOs have been bought by the next company and been bought by the next company? And then in the end, some like third and fourth party removed private equity firm, international private equity firms holding 10s of 1000s of dental practices around the country?   What is that like in the industry? mean, you're in the practice as you know that you're like in the heartbeat of that. What does that mean for the industry? What does that feel like? Does it feel weird?   Kiera Dent (22:27) It does feel weird. And I think this is where I've been, I don't know, Ryan, you know me. just sit over here and think of ideas all day long. I've been like, how can we like, hi, I'm Kiera. I live in Reno, Nevada right now. It's like, how can some, I feel like I'm like Dorothy in Kansas right now. It's fine. It wasn't the destination, but it ended up being, it's fine. It's got really great. No state income tax. All right. That's really one of the main reasons we're here. It's not.   Ryan Isaac (22:42) I like to write now by the way. Just a little shout out. like to write now. Yeah. Loud and clear. Yeah.   Yeah, fine. It's pretty in some seasons. There you   Kiera Dent (22:55) But it's okay. We have Lake Tahoe. ⁓   Ryan Isaac (22:55) go. Okay. Okay. All right. Okay.   Kiera Dent (22:59) But only half of Lake Tahoe because California owns the other half. So it's okay. But I've thought about it. like, how can, like, it's like I'm Dorothy in Wizard of Oz right now. It's like, how can we somehow influence these private equity firms? And there might be no way. But these are the questions I think of often, because I do think if we're not careful, it will radically shift the way dentistry is done. And it will turn into a business rather than into our   Ryan Isaac (23:02) Yeah, you're half.   Okay.   Kiera Dent (23:24) our healthcare profession. I mean, I look at modern medicine, my husband's in it and it is a freaking drill machine. Like his number one thing was patient productivity and they had to have so many patients, otherwise they were going to fire providers. And their providers worked hard. They weren't getting paid what they like want to get paid. And so I'm actually watching in healthcare, lots of my friends in healthcare, nurse practitioners, doctors branch off and go open up their own practices because they're sick of working in modern medicine. So I'm like,   Ryan Isaac (23:24) Mm-hmm.   Yeah.   Kiera Dent (23:51) if we can look at modern medicine and see how the healthcare system has been working and how can we do something now as like you said, third, fourth remove private equity, owning all these dental practices, like is there a path? And I don't know, right? Like this is I feel like I'm like Dorothy sitting in Kansas of like how on earth can we influence it? But I'm like, if enough brilliant people start thinking this way, what can we do now to show that you can be profitable and ethical and still give great dentistry where we're not having to like,   Ryan Isaac (24:08) Hmm.   Yeah.   Kiera Dent (24:21) not running it like a private equity business, but still showing. so Britt was like, we need to become the Wegmans. Like, have you been like up north, like Wegmans is an amazing grocery store. They're not the biggest, but they still are ethical. And I'm like, if we even had a few private equity that's third and fourth removed that would still run practices that way, I think dentistry would still feel the same. Something else though, that I think of like new dentists coming in that I think is really paramount is you've got to look at the future of the industry. I think the current doctors,   Ryan Isaac (24:39) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (24:50) that have been in dentistry have like safeguarded and kept dentistry like we're healthcare when we want to be and we're not healthcare when it doesn't benefit us. Like we literally have straddled the spine line. It's still a little bit of the wild wild west dentistry is not as regulated as far as like our fees and like what we're able to charge in every single practice and like insurance is schmuck. get it. But I'm like, you also only have $2,000 of max most of the time that we're dealing with rather than it being like a hundred percent of what your patient base is and like what the patients are paying out. So I'm like,   Ryan Isaac (25:11) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (25:19) I feel the pioneers of dentistry have actually done a really good job of setting it up to where dentistry is still very profitable. It's still able to be its own thing that I'm like, let's, again, I feel like I'm like Dorothy sitting on my soap box in the middle of prairie fields and saying like, hey, why don't we take a pause and just think of like, what's the future of dentistry as now the future pioneers of dentistry? And what are we going to do to our profession? Yes, there's top dollar. Yes, there's things about it, but is there a way to influence?   and make sure that the integrity of dentistry can maintain long-term. I have no answer to that, but again, this is Kiera Dent sitting on my podcast where I think that there is a voice and an influence and like on Dentist Advisors podcast, is there a way that we can influence our industry in ways that will protect and still pay out? Because I'm like, even if you don't get the 10X EBITDA, you still can get a freaking great payout if you do your life right to where you can be financially set up.   Ryan Isaac (25:51) Mm-hmm. ⁓   Kiera Dent (26:17) still be able to sell your practice, not have to sell it in ways that could potentially hurt the industry. I'm not saying one's the right answer or the wrong answer. There's no judgment on my side. It's just, let's maybe think and consider how it could influence. Can we get people that could be private equity higher up that could help protect it? Those are things that, and again, I'm just Kiera Dent here in Reno,   Ryan Isaac (26:22) Mm-hmm. Yeah.   Same, okay.   Okay. Yes.   Kiera Dent (26:38) Yeah, of course. And for everyone listening, thank you for listening and we'll catch you next time.   Ryan Isaac (26:37) Thank you.   Kiera Dent (26:42) the Dental A Team Podcast.  

As the weather heats up and schools let out, there’s one main thing on people’s minds: vacation! In this episode, Kiera talks about maximizing the slow days and weeks at your practice, including batching vacation days, production goals, and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:01) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera, and I just thought this would be a fun one to release ⁓ right before we're prepping for summer, ⁓ because I know a lot of you want to take some summertime off, but our practices are still running, right? ⁓ A lot of times we don't want to close it down. Sometimes we want to close it down. So I thought, let's just pop on, do a quick tactical practical of what to do to have products for our team to figure out what to do to make this tour. You can have an amazing summer vacation and a profitable practice.   As always, Dental A Team is here for you. We are here for dentists and teams. We love consulting. We love working. We love making your life easy. We love helping you have the dream life that you've been looking for. And honestly, it's so magical to be able to help so many offices turn what they thought was impossible to possible. So today, let's dive in. Let's talk about, all right, I go on vacation, but my team's still working. What on earth should I have them do? Like...   honest to goodness, what do I do? So I'm going to give a few ideas, but before I get into that, I think it's super important that for future, some offices will actually strategically plan when doctors are off and when the full team is off. So what I would say is let's look at this and is this something that you want to do or is this a way to like max out all the vacations that you're looking to get done? Cause team members might be wanting to take vacation too, or is there a time of year that you want to take off?   that then the rest of your team could take off. So we're kind of like batching our vacations. Some offices will do that. And you can look at a projection forecaster and figure out, okay, how far do I need to go? What do we need to do? What would we need to produce? And it will help you actually set goals so that way you can be on vacation stress free. So that'd be number one. Other times offices love it. They love to where the hygienists are going to keep working pending upon your state laws. Front office is going to catch up, but what do we actually have them do? So that way they're working effectively.   we're able to move this practice forward. So things that I would recommend are always an operations manual. This is a great time. People always tell me, I don't have time, I don't have time, I don't have time. Let's actually get that operations manual completed. Let's build out the protocols, let's take the pictures, let's write the pieces. And we have an operations manual, a template in our, ⁓ in our virtual academy that all of our offices get.   And so like just certain things that you could do for like an office manager is leading morning huddle tracking. Like how do we track our production? How do we track our collections? How do we do our reappointments? How do we fill out our KPIs, end of day checklists, next day schedules, checking to see it? How do we fill out a scorecard of all of our metrics? What about for monthly closing the month by the fifth of every month? How do we do that? How do we set the supply budget for the next month? How do we do production and collections? Doctors, you might not even know how to do half this stuff I'm rattling off.   ⁓ making projections for the years, putting in our OSHA training, our HIPAA training, who do we contact for all of that, ⁓ looking at payroll, how do we do team training. For schedulers, would be like routes look prep, new patient referral tracking, confirmation calls of all the patients, re-care calls to fill the schedule, patient check-in. Like these are the type of protocols going out to our dental assistants and hygienists. How do we set up for...   breaking down a room, how do we do a bridge prep? How do we do burr blocks? How do we do the seric machine, changing traps, charting, checking insurance eligibility, cleaning the mill, co-diagnosing treatment, crown prep, crown seat, downtime. There are about a bajillion ⁓ protocols that your team could honestly do. And we have this whole beautiful checklist where you literally, who's writing it? When does it need to be done? What does it look like? And also in our template,   we show exactly how these protocols should be done. So like at the beginning, what's the purpose of this? What are the steps? What are the supplies needed? And then a picture of it if applicable. So that way everybody knows how to make this template. Everybody knows what we're looking for. We have it in there. So it's like all of them should have a purpose, step-by-step, supplies if needed picture, and then making sure that they're all in a word format. You can also add videos as well if you want. But if I had this much time, this much downtime,   I would set it with my team of how many protocols that we need to get written or also updating my operations manual. It is an amazing time to get so much work done. And this is just, feel like like dusting the baseboards. Like it's annoying, it's obnoxious, but it has to get done. And so really making sure we're maximizing our time on that to get that done. That's a huge, long beast of a project that if I'm out on vacation, yeah, that's a great one to get done. Other things you can do while you're out for your team to have downtime is,   Some offices are swapping softwares and it's a great time to get everything prepped, have everybody take on training modules, things like that. So if you know you want to swap a software, great time to do it. Get your whole team trained, have a team champion, their job is to swap X number videos. Please don't say like go learn it. Nope. Take our like template of all these protocols, have them learn how to do it in the new software so that way they're able to train people. So I definitely recommend if you're doing a software change, go on vacation, have everybody learn it while you're out. And then we come in or not even just the software, but implementing like   if we're doing flex or we're adding weave or we're adding Modento or adding whatever it is, whatever software, AI, we're adding toothy, we're adding Lassie, whatever it is, it's also a great time for the training to happen, the onboarding to happen without all the patient noise. Other things during this time, this is huge where I'm going after re-care and I'm going after unscheduled treatment and I'm also going after collections. Hard, hard, heavy hitting on the front office. And what I say is like, let's set goals before we leave of what we're going to collect, what we're going to get done.   That way we're on the same agreement and alignment with each other. We're not sitting here like, I hope and pray they collect this much money while I'm on vacation. You also can do this when you're on CE because you're out of the office, set it up. Let's think about these things. These are great things for you and your practice to be doing. They should be happening consistently, but this is where we get like that big oomph, that big like, my gosh, we got to get this done. So it's operations manual. That's a huge lift calling on all your own schedules, re-care. Like I literally would have it.   Pound out how many we've got, like how many days we're going to be gone. If my scheduler is not seeing any patients, but they want to work, they should be able to get through a pretty hefty list. Now you might say like, but Kara, we're booked out so far. And I'll say, high five. We still need to make those calls for when patients fall off the schedule, but also get them booked even further out. You just built yourself a VIP fast, quick fill list that then when patients do fall off, we have all these patients teed up, ready to go. So I'm always pro. Get them in, get them in, get them in, make the calls.   Same thing on unscheduled treatment plans. Let's get all those patients scheduled in, like clean it up. And that means we print out the whole list of unscheduled treatment plans we're going through. We're cleaning up treatment plans. they ⁓ didn't accept treatment and they denied it, we need to clean it out of the treatment plans. We need to clean it up towards an actual list. We need to call patients. And I prioritize, I'm not just going down the list A to Z of calling patients. I really want my team to get the best bang for our buck. So I'm going to look to see what do need to fill our schedule for to hit our goal.   let's go find treatment plans that fit that amount, fill those in first. So let's prioritize the treatment plans that we want. And then after that, I'm going to suggest that your team starts to clean it up, call your TC should be able to get through that entire list. So I've got my scheduler calling all their re-care. I've got my TC cleaning up all of my unscheduled treatment when I'm gone for, and this would be if I was out for a week. If I'm only out for a couple of days, there are other things. Then we're going to go after that and we're going to go to our billing. So this is like office manager, biller.   We should be able to in one week's time if we have no patients truly, they should be able to get through your almost your entire AR list if not the whole AR list. So I prioritize which days am I calling on insurances. I'm going to be calling my patient balances. I'm also going to prioritize which ones I want them to do to make sure that we're hitting our biggest bang for our buck because we can collect. Tiff and I were talking on another podcast. sat there for a couple of minutes in an office, called and collected on three accounts very quickly and easily.   but we need to go into like the mindset we're here to help these patients. We're here to collect the money. We're here to serve them, ⁓ figure it out. Now this does not mean we're sitting here texting. So many people are like, we're calling, we're texting, but I'm like, no, no, no. We're calling with intentionality to get the AR cleaned up. Like your job in one month is to collect, I don't know, a hundred grand or whatever it is. So setting that goal and expectation and agreement together really makes it to where a doctor's like, we're getting us out of the hole that we got into.   We're doing these big hefty projects that we've been putting off and we're really making a huge movement. So those would be like real quick. Now for your hygiene team, if they are there, I recommend that they are seeing patients pending your state laws. And dental assistant teams, this is where we're going to go through. You can organize your supply closet, clean it all out, put the tip out bins in place so we cut down our supply costs for us. Notice every single thing I'm saying is propelling your business forward. Every single one of them. We're not sitting here like, I really want to reorganize my ops.   Well, great, if you're reorganize your op, you're making a protocol for it, a template for it, and you're making all ops exactly the same. ⁓ If we're doing supplies, we're not just sitting here like cleaning house, we're putting tip-out bins, we're making it towards a more efficient ordering system, we're actually moving the needle forward rather than just wasting time and spending time. ⁓ Those are some really big things for every single department. You could organize the burr blocks, we could figure out our inventory, we could get an inventory thing in place.   We could work with a buying group. could negotiate deals on that. We could get a membership program put into place. ⁓ We could work on our marketing, like our TikToks for the next hour long. Now, if I was having them build out all of my marketing videos while we were out, I would limit it to, I only want you working on this for two hours because marketing's so fun and your team could sit there for so long, but that's more fun in its brand awareness more than it's going to drive and get results moving forward.   So those would be some things that I would do. ⁓ You can go and answer all the reviews and answer every single one of those. So you boost up your SEO to get it higher on the algorithms. All of that would be stuff that I'd be building out, mapping out, putting things into place. But really, think getting that ops manual updated would be something so valuable. Calling on all the unscheduled re-care, calling on all of our unscheduled treatment, going after our insurance and AR. And even if you've got clinical team members,   give them some of these lists. They can call on unscheduled treatments. They can call on re-care. They can call on balances. They can call and sit on hold with insurance companies. Imagine if you will, you've got five phones going on different insurance companies and when everyone picks up, the biller goes and pops over to that. Like that is huge efficiency to get through these lists, to get things resubmitted. And also if your team members have to come and listen on insurance, you better believe they'll be much better at getting those claims. Correct information. Update your note templates if we're noticing a lot of these balances aren't getting paid. Why?   How can we fix this forever and move it forward? So I'm always looking for what are the like cobwebs that don't just make us feel better, but actually move our company forward. These are things in the doctors, when you come back, you're like, wow, like, and have them report. I always love them to report like, hey, I was out, what did you get done? Like tell me your wins. What did we end up like? We were able to schedule 50 patients while you guys were out. That's amazing. That's a good use of the time, like absolutely worth it. We were able to bring in.   I don't know, 100,000 worth of unscheduled treatment plants. Like, frick, yeah, that's amazing. We were able to collect $100,000 worth of balances and that took out 55 or 100 accounts that we were able to get through. They should be able to get through way more than that, especially no patients, no interruptions. Now, when I have that, also make sure that I'm like, hey guys, I want you to have a good time. I'm out. I also really do expect that we see results from this. So let's set this up. That way all of us are on the same page. Here's extra projects if we get done earlier.   Could you imagine if you came back and your whole operations manual was done? No, this is not fun. So if team members are going to be working there, I want it to be something that's moving our business forward. I don't want it to be like, we're just sitting here cleaning the mill. No, we can get that done. We have to get that done. That's urgent. That will get done no matter what. But what won't get done is the unscheduled treatment list. What won't get done is the AR. What won't get done are the operations manuals. Things that we won't like.   Urgent things are you will sharpen your instruments hygienist. I promise you, will. This is not a time where we have everybody out that we just sit there. That's a nice to do, but it's not a must do. I'm looking for projects that move you forward that we wouldn't otherwise take the time to do. I know people will sharpen instruments because it hurts your hands. So you'll get that done. I know you will reorganize ops. Like things like that, like things that are urgent that always will get done. That's not usually the week that I want that to be done. I don't want you cleaning the mill. You have to do that. I don't want us like   sending out all of our cases, like we have to do that, that will get done. What I want us doing are things that will move us forward. So hopefully that gave you a bunch of ideas. A lot of times we'll actually work with teens when doctors are out and just get that operations manual done. We're working with them, we're checking in with them, or we're helping with the billing. A lot of these things can be done when you're on vacation. So hey, if you're like, I don't want to have that conversation with my team. I don't want to tell them I'd prefer a consultant to do that. Right, that's what we're here for. But hopefully that just helps you think of all these other ideas that your team can do that are.   moving you forward while you're gone rather than just like having a good time while you're gone. Again, I want it to be play. want to be fun. But if I'm paying them, I want to make sure that we're actually getting the results and we're moving things forward. That way we're not wasting our time either. So as always, I hope this was helpful. I hope it was informational for you. And if you need more tips or tricks, be sure to get on our newsletter. We have a lot of these things. If you haven't joined us, be sure to subscribe. Head on over to TheDentalATeam.com There is a newsletter link so you can join it. You can be a part of it. I'd love to have you be a part of it.   And if you're like, gosh, I just need help on my practice. I don't even know where to start. Schedule a call. We actually go through an entire practice assessment, show your blind spots, give you valuable tips and resources. I'd love to chat with you. But go enjoy your vacations guilt free, having a solid plan in place with your team. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.  

Tiff and Dana are in the mood to talk about moods — specifically when it comes to setting the tone for patients and case acceptance. The two discuss overcoming objections from a foundational level, including your mindset, effective language, and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:01) Hello Dental A Team listeners we are so excited to be here with you today. I have back on the podcast with me Miss Dana. I am so excited to see your beautiful smiling face today and gosh Britt did Rim to Rim, Grand Canyon Rim to Rim recently and Dana   I've lived here my whole life. I am an Arizona girl. I love the mountains and I'm like, gosh, people just go out there and it's like, why didn't you bring water? Right? Like you guys are crazy. You've been here for a long time. You hike avidly. Your husband hikes more avidly than anyone I know and knows the Arizona mountains like the back of his hand as if he grew up here. And I'm like, yeah, I could do rim to rim. And then Britt got back and I was like,   Dana (00:47) you   The Dental A Team (00:48) Okay, Dana, like we should do Rim to Rim, but holy cow. If you guys don't know what Grand Canyon Rim to Rim is, please go look it up. It's like an event that people literally, my boyfriend says to have like, you take it for granted. People literally come here from other countries to see the Grand Canyon. I do take it for granted, that's fair. But hearing Britt's story, Dana, I'm like, holy cow. If we are going to ever do that in our lifetime, I think we need to start today.   What do how do you prepare for that?   Dana (01:18) Yeah, my biggest   takeaway is like the planning of it because I like because I avidly had because my husband like you're right hikes more than any human on earth like I'm just like we can just go do room term and honestly, I'll be like I was like, no, I'm doing rim to rim to rim. Like I'm not loving at the first. I'm not starting at just rim. And then hearing her I'm like, Okay, well, I definitely need to plan.   The Dental A Team (01:22) Yes!   Literally.   Yes!   Yes!   literally the same.   Dana (01:45) more   because I'm like I hike in Arizona all the time. I know what the heat is. I know how to hydrate. I know how to do all those pieces. I'm like but maybe I should plan it out a little bit more.   The Dental A Team (01:54) Literally what I said, my takeaway was I did not do planning for it and I didn't, I just, I don't know, I'm take it for granted. I didn't think it was necessary. I'm like, I hike, I work out, I run, I do the stair climber, I do cycle, I do spin classes. Like I am pretty okay to just like sign up for a race and do it and whatever and I thought the same thing minus the rim to rim trip. I was not going an extra rim.   I thought I could just pop over and do rim to rim like no big deal people do it all the time constantly can't be that hard just kidding just kidding so I think we need it on our bucket list here within the next I would say three years based on the fact that I'm over 40 at this point I'm not gonna lie to myself I'm not I need to get myself three years to get this sucker done ⁓ and probably shorter than that so Dina we just need to prep and plan for this sucker   Dana (02:53) Yep. Yeah,   we just need to pick a date, right? Because if I don't pick a date, can think I'm going to plan all I want. ⁓ So I just need to pick a date and then I will force myself to plan. Now that I know how much prep I should probably put into it.   The Dental A Team (02:55) We need to a Yep.   same. Same z's.   I agree.   I agree. I tell people that constantly. I'm like, gosh, the most fit you'll ever be is when you know vacation is coming. You will have bikini body ready when you know that vacation is coming. But when there's not something planned, you're like, I'll do it. I'll eat this for now and I'll make it up later. I do it constantly. So you're right. Okay.   Everybody just congratulate Britt for surviving rim to rim. And that's a real statement for surviving. Um, it's a huge feat. It's massive. So if you are on our Instagram, which I'm sure you are just give her a shout out. If you see her face in there, if you're one of her clients and didn't know she did it, congratulations. Here you go. Text her. Um, but it was super cool. So Dana, we're going to put it on our list. That's our next to do. We'll add it to, uh, our fitness challenge thing over there.   channel. Today guys, I wanted to talk about more than the Grand Canyon, but seriously if you don't know what it is, you should look it up. And if you are planning on coming and you don't live in Arizona, like seriously you think we need to plan like prep and freaking plan you guys? There was another hiker this weekend and it's not even our true ⁓ hot season yet and there was another hiker this weekend in Phoenix that did not make it through her hike and she was an avid avid hiker. So it's no joke you guys.   ⁓ Please be safe. So on that note, overcoming objections is actually what I wanted to talk about today. So rim to rim is my objection today. I'm not ready for it. I get that. But overcoming objections in the practice, you guys, we really want to talk about case acceptance and what that might look like. And doctors, office managers, I know sometimes we get in the space of like, this is for my treatment coordinator. Doctors, this is for you too, especially when you're chair-side treatment planning. Because sometimes I feel like   Dana, feel like doctors get that look of glazed over, like, okay, either this is too much information or I've checked out because I have an objection, but we just talk through it, right? And how many times have we even done that in a personal relationship? That makes me laugh because I'm thinking, even my kid, I'll just keep talking at him and wait for him to catch up. And then he's like, yeah, sure. And then turns around and I'm like, I don't think that's gonna happen. Whatever that was. He checked out. He's obviously no, right? Yeah.   Dana (05:24) I'm thinking that, no.   The Dental A Team (05:27) Like he checked out and I didn't catch it. So the moment when there's a checkout, like that's your objection. There's an objection in there somewhere. Either it was overload of information or they're just not, they're not on board yet because of a reason. I like to go into everything assuming, yes, I live my life that way. My boyfriend's constantly like telling me that I'm like a golden retriever. Right, I'm just like, yep, life is great, what's next, let's go. Because it's just a detour. Whatever it is, it's just a detour.   And it's an opportunity to gain more information, in my opinion. So if there's a no, if there's a roadblock, I'm like, cool. What can I learn from this? What information do I need in order to get around this roadblock? Or should I be taking a different route? So it's a detour. So when I go into a treatment case, when I'm presenting treatment or when I'm training team members to present treatment and doctors, I'm constantly in the yes mindset.   Tony Robbins talks a lot about mindset, about mind frame, on where you're supposed to be, and that yes zone is massive. If I assume the yes, I'm leaving opportunity for that. And Dana, isn't it true, like when you go into a conversation with the like, yeah, everything's gonna be fine, you're more optimistic, right? You're not set on an end result necessarily, and if it's not fine or a yes,   it gives you that opportunity to create something new. And do you feel like Dana, I have a question, an actual real question, because I live my life this way, but like, I don't always check in with other people. People coming to you with that open mindset, right? That like, yep, this is gonna be fantastic. Does that then set the tone for you on that conversation? Like you as a person, whether it's personal, professional, whatever it is, does that set the tone for the conversation for you being like, okay, well, this is an opportunity?   rather than it being like, this is a conversation. Like, how does that feel on the other side,   Dana (07:24) Yeah, and I think it's funny that you asked that question. I agree, it does set the tone and I think though it's harder to see when it's from that mindset.   right? Like I think we very easily see when someone negative sets our tone negative, right? But I don't think we always understand that like the initiative and the consciousness that the person that is setting the positive tone is doing. And so I think it's harder to relate to or harder to think that it works because it's very easy to spot it when it's the other way, not necessarily when it is the positive outlook and the positivity that breeds the positive. So I love that you specifically asked that question because I firmly do believe it. I think it's just a   The Dental A Team (07:33) Yeah.   Dana (08:03) little bit harder to see.   The Dental A Team (08:05) Yeah, that was a   huge massive point because it's like anything we're always going to remember the negative more than the positive, right? So I always tell teams, well, number one, this rolls into case acceptance as well because if you get a no and you carry it, you're always going to remember that no, you could have 10 yeses today and that one person said no to two fillings. And it's like, oh, I suck, right? But I just sold 10 freaking implants, right? But it's like getting your hair done. And I say, you're walking down the street.   walking down the street and you're like, gosh, my hair, it's so good. I got bangs today. And you've got like nine people walk by you. And they're like, dang, I really like your hair today. I really like your hair, right? Nine people tell you, you look amazing. And one person stops you on the street and they say, gosh, I like your hair, but I'm just not sure I would have gone with bangs. When you get home or when you get into your car, what are you doing? You're looking in the mirror and you're second guessing your choice on bangs. You're not saying,   Nine people and myself love my hair right now. You're saying one person's second guest bangs. Why did I do this? Should I have done this? And I think that's exactly what you just said too, Dana. It's really easy to be like, gosh, they just like came in so aggressive and just totally changed my mood. This person put me in a bad mood. One of my least favorite statements of all time. I get to choose the mood I'm gonna be in. That's my power and my control.   ain't nobody taking that away from me. But we say that, right? Like this person just totally changed the mood, but it's not always noticeable when someone comes in with a positive, right, or an open mind and they change that or they keep the mood that you've been in. You're totally right. It's not always noticeable, but it makes a huge impact. So your patients may not notice that you're like, hey, let's go. They may not notice that they're like, yeah, like let's figure this out instead of being in like a gosh,   Dana (09:49) Mm-hmm.   The Dental A Team (09:59) treatment mood. So huge point there, Dana. I love that you pointed that out because going into it with that mindset, you're not going to reap 100 % of the accolades and the rewards. They're not going to be like, thanks so much for being so positive all the time. You might get that every now and again, but we're looking for that feedback and we're not always getting it. So then we get worn down and we're like, why even try? When you're tracking your results, you're going to know why you try.   when you're tracking those yeses, when you're just tracking the conversations even, like you're not always gonna get a yes, that's okay. And that's what we're here about today is those objections. When you go in with that yes mindset of like, I can do anything. It's not always this person's gonna say yes to this treatment. It's this person is gonna say yes to their health and we're gonna get them there. So I go in thinking, this is a huge opportunity to learn more about this patient and to get them healthier.   I don't always go into it, which I think is a mindset shift, Dana, for the healthcare field in general. We think like, I'm selling treatment. You are selling treatment, but you're selling someone their health back, right? So I'm selling you back your health. You are unhealthy. You came to me with a deficit, and I'm selling you back your health, right? And so when we put it in that perspective, we put in the perspective of learning and opportunity, it shifts the mindset quite a bit. So.   That was a fun tangent. Thank you everyone for following along with us. I hope you gleaned some opportunities there and some mindset shifts. I think it's huge. Now, Dana, when they do come in, they're like, okay, we've got this, we've got this. And then they're like, I'm just not ready. Like, what do you, you train a lot of systems, you train a lot of communication and a lot of ⁓ verbiage, that people like to call it scripts, right? What do you tell your teams is the best path to take?   when you do get an objection.   Dana (11:54) Yeah, I think that I think first of all, Mr. Preface that right. I always try to teach teams that anything outside of a yes is a no. Right. So but there are no's that are true no's and then there are solvable no's. And so it's it really helps teams to kind of know the difference. Like a true no would be I'm leaving tomorrow to go out of town for three months and like I truly cannot do the treatment. Right. Or ⁓   I just bought a new house and haven't paid my first mortgage payment. Like I want to wait until I make that that's a true no, right? Or there's then they're solvable knows which are, you know, gosh, I don't know if I'm ready or I need to talk to a spouse or ⁓ that's a lot, you know, that's a lot financially or all of those are solvable knows and usually the easiest way to solve them is to ask better questions to find out what is the actual   barrier, right? Because driven coordinators, we teach them a lot, you've got a lot of tools, you've got a lot of things that you can offer patients. ⁓ But what I want you to do is hone in on what to offer instead of throwing the book at them, right? Like, well, here are all of my solutions and now you choose. Well, they don't actually know what those choices mean, or they don't actually know what to pick in those choices. So I think it's asking questions to get down to the bottom of   The Dental A Team (12:56) Yes.   Dana (13:09) what is holding the patient back so that you can provide the right solution for that patient.   The Dental A Team (13:15) Yes, I totally agree. You made me think of ⁓ the game Guess Who? Do you remember that game? When we were little? I think it's back around again and they have way cooler pictures, by the way. Ours were like, ours were bad when it was like trending back when we were kids. Anyways, Guess Who is the game where you flip your board up and you've got all the pictures of the different characters and you're one of the characters on the other person's board. You've got your little card down here.   and that other person is supposed to try to guess which character you are by asking questions. So you say, do you have dark hair? No, okay, great, we'd mark down all the dark hairs. Then we say, do you wear glasses? Yes, okay, so anyone who doesn't have glasses, we mark down those guys, and it leaves you with a couple of options, and you narrow it down until you're so sure you have the answer, and that's what I feel like treatment coordinating is like. You have this massive board.   of options, of opportunities, and you're like, okay, great, what do we need to overcome today? And we're narrowing it down until we get to the actual root cause or the root issue that the person's suffering because...   I mean, I'm not gonna lie to you. I've seen so many memes recently and I'm like, that is so me, where they're like, if she says she has to check with her husband, I mean, she doesn't wanna go because she ain't gotta check with her husband. Like, that's me. If I'm like, let me check our calendar. I know what our calendar is. And if I'm saying that, I just don't feel comfortable telling you no in the space that we're in. I'm gonna text you because it's less invasive and it's less confrontational. So I'm just gonna text you later.   Right? So when they're like, I need to talk to my husband, right? I have had instances, I do have to, I do have to caveat this. I have had instances where that is a hundred percent true, but I've said to them, totally, I completely agree with you and I would never want you to make a decision without consulting your spouse financially. I never support that. Right? I want you guys to be on the same page. What I would suggest is let's set up a consultation where both of you can be here with us or can he come, is he here? Can he come in?   because what I'd hate to do is for you to get home and have to try to reiterate everything that I just said today and everything that you learned from the dentist. That's a lot of information for you to carry. It's a heavy weight for you to carry, and I'd love to help support you in that. So is he here? Is she here? Can we get you guys scheduled? Now, I've got a soft no, a soft no because we're not scheduling the treatment yet, which you   Dana (15:44) Thank   The Dental A Team (15:49) You still can, you can say, let's schedule this for two weeks out, let's get him in before then, right? Let's hold the space, let's get you and your spouse back before that, so let's try for Thursday, whatever. It's a soft no, but I'm still scheduling them for something, and I'm still providing support for my patient, because I want my patient to be healthy.   That's all I want. I want my patients to be healthy. And if it means that I have to have an additional conversation with a spouse in order to get that patient healthy, I'm going to do that. I'm 100 % going to do that. So whatever that objection is, it's finding that space around the objection that's providing the ultimate benefit to the patient. So I've even had it, Dana, you said even like vacation. I've had patients, we have snowbirds in Arizona. Super cool.   Phoenix gets a ton of snowbirds. We love you all. Sometimes the roads get crazy, you guys. It's fast driving here. You got to keep up. Anyways, we get snowbirds and these snowbirds come. They're like, gosh, well, I'm heading back in two weeks. I'm like, shoot, like I don't have anything in the schedule for two weeks in the next two weeks. Right. So I'm like, hey, let me see what I can do. Let me see what I can move around. Let me see whatever. If I can get them in, I will. Or we've had snowbirds that are like, hey, I'm only gone for three months in the summer. I'll be back.   1st of September, great. Let's schedule you for the second week in September because I want to make sure this is taken care of. And if for some reason something gets worse while you're gone and you've got to see your dentist back home, tell us. We'll take it off the schedule because I just want you to get taken care of. So if you get it done there, let us know. If not, we're going to put you down for the second week in September because I just want to make sure that they're investing in their health.   to the best of their own capabilities. And I have the tools for them to do that. Something I talked with a client about last week, was not everybody knows. Patients don't know to ask the questions they don't know. And I was in office with a practice last week, and we were talking about ⁓ educational overload and confusion. And we often over talk because we're trying to educate past objections we think people might have.   And in response to that, we can create decision paralysis and just educational confusion. And something that I said was, if you're giving them this much information, like there's so much information, sometimes they don't know what questions to ask to gain clarity. And so Dana, to your point, us asking them questions will bring that out.   Dana with that said, what kind of questions do you train teams to be able to ask either chair side or at treatment coordinating upfront?   Dana (18:49) Yeah, so I think that it comes down to just like, ⁓   Asking questions to understand is it is it a like do you understand the actual treatment right? Like do you understand what a crown is? Do you understand? ⁓ Do you remember what the doctor said as far as why you need the treatment? Do you know what will happen if we do nothing right because I think some of the times it is like they may understand the treatment They may know what a crown is they may remember why but they they struggle with   How do I put they struggle with like, where do I prioritize this? Right? And so if I've got an AC repair, right? Well, it's 110 degrees out in Arizona. And if I don't have AC, right, like, so where do they put it in their priority list of things to get done? So sometimes it's okay to say, Hey, what other big things do you have coming up? Right? Because you may be able to help them with that priority.   The Dental A Team (19:29) Yeah.   Dana (19:50) Like, the doctor review with you, if we do nothing, what's going to happen, right? Do you understand the risk of like not doing this treatment, where that puts you? So I think it's just figuring out what part of it they don't understand. Is it the actual treatment? Is it the reason for the treatment? Or is it that they don't know how to prioritize it in all the things because life is busy, right? And things are happening and there's other expenses elsewhere. And so how can you help them prioritize where to put that?   The Dental A Team (20:11) Yeah.   Dana (20:19) in all of the other noise that they have going on in their lives.   The Dental A Team (20:22) Yeah, and to that point of prioritization, Dana, in addition to that, I think a lot of treatment plans are delivered with this is everything you need, okay, goodbye. And there's no prioritization put on the treatment that is next, the next visit. And I had a doctor recently tell me, well, like, it's their mouth. And I said, you are the only person that can make this decision with and for them. You have to tell them what the most important next step is, even if it's like,   All of this is about the same. Where I would start is upper right. I don't know, what's the easiest, what's the hardest? What do you want to start with when you don't know the priority? The issue is that patients don't know a lot about dentistry. Most patients don't know a lot about dentistry. So when you leave it up to them, they're making a decision based on not a lot of knowledge. You have all the tools under your belt.   prioritize the treatment that needs to be done and then help and assist your patient in prioritizing getting that treatment done. I love it. So I would say in an effort to overcome objections, first and foremost, be open-minded. Go into it as a conversation, go into it as an opportunity, and make sure that your mindset is set. If you just got off of a really hard call, if you just had a patient berate you, if you just walked down the street and someone yelled at you,   I want you to be like, okay, how can I shift my mindset right now? And then ask all of the questions. What questions can you ask that help prioritize your patient's treatment? So you place the priority, go in with an open mindset, you tell them what's next, what do they need to do next, and then help ask all of those questions. You guys just get them over the hurdle. Do not assume what their hurdle is.   because you can implant an idea and make yourself some big problems there, ask the questions. I love it. I usually say, Dana, be in the why, or be in the what. Be in the question. You guys, if you go into any conversation open-minded, meaning leaving room to ask for more information, whatever that conversation is just became tenfold easier. go do the things, you guys. Dana, we got to put rim to rim.   You can do the extra rim if you want. I'm doing two. We gotta put it on our calendar, rim to rim. You can all wait for you at the other side and pick you back up if you're doing that extra rim. But we gotta put that on our calendars. And Dana, thank you for podcasting with me today. I love our time together. Listeners, thank you so much for being here. As always, write in at Hello@TheDentalATeam.com and let us know what you think. Thanks so much, everyone.  

Kiera returns with the Green Park Dentistry team, Chief Operations Manager Jeff and Dr. Andrew Sugg, to discuss tips for those who want to evolve their leadership. Jeff and Dr. Sugg share their own journey, which included immersing themselves in a new community. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners, this is Kiera, and this is part two of Dr. Andrew and Jeff talking about, they already went through their expansion, what they did, and now I really wanted to get into the nitty gritty of what makes Andrew so incredible as a doctor and what makes Jeff an incredible leader in his practice to get the growth and the success that they've been able to have. And I'm so excited for you to experience it. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.   Kiera Dent (00:24) Andrew, can you walk us through, what do you feel are some of the things you do so superior? Like, I want you to brag a little bit. This is a moment where Kiera Dent is so freaking proud of you. Tiff is proud of you. Our company is proud of you. ⁓   because I think other people want to know how to do this. So I almost want to peel back the curtain just a little bit on what are some of the things you do really well in assembly? Like I said, Jeff, chime in too. Then we're going to reverse. We're going to talk about Jeff and Andrew, you can chime in on him. So like both of you can just schmooze each other tonight as well. You guys are going to have an amazing night post podcast. You're welcome. All right. But truly, Andrew, what are some of the things you feel set in part?   Jeff & Andrew (00:52) Yeah, thank you.   Well,   that leads into a great, was going to say, like, I feel really lucky to have Jeff, obviously. And I know not everybody has a Jeff or can trust someone as much as I trust Jeff. But I think obviously it can be very hard on our marriage. So that's one side note. And I know like a lot of couples that that happens. But I think I have to always. Right? know. Two years ago, I was worried. And in gay years, that's like 40 years.   Kiera Dent (01:19) I'm so proud of you. 10 years in and you still, I think, love each other, which is amazing. I think   everybody is. You're like, okay. But it's one of those things also though, I will say, like throwing it out to couples, when couples go through what you have gone through and you're able to like be through the thick and the thin of it, I will also give advice. Like when I watched people go through dental school, and Andrew, I'm sure you saw this, I was so angry at so many of our like friends that went through.   Jeff & Andrew (01:33) you   Kiera Dent (01:46) Like they went through the residencies, they got to the end and I'm like, you freaking made it. And that's when they get divorced. And I'm like, Oh, if you're to get divorced, get divorced during the hard times, but like you have made it. You've made it. And now it's like, it's a matter of like, we bonded together, we grew together. And I think like making sure that stays a priority in your marriage. You guys remember I was a marriage and finally therapist prior to this. Like that was my thing. I like, Oh, don't give up on what you like. You went through the freaking hardest years together. Now it's like, enjoy this amazing life we built together.   Jeff & Andrew (01:50) Yeah.   Right, yeah. All right.   Yeah.   Yeah   Kiera Dent (02:16) and don't lose sight of how grateful we are for one another. anyway, like off my tangent, keep going.   Jeff & Andrew (02:20) No, that's   that one. So I guess that's that's part like that's kind of part of my after always remind myself I need to be very appreciative for everyone around me. So that's probably number one. And I guess that goes into like, you need to kind of check your ego, right? Like as much as everybody wants it to be all about the dentist and all about me. I'm really just the guy that does the dentistry and I enjoy kind of being like that side note, like I'd rather people come talk to him. Right. So I think like the more you can step back and see yourself as that clinician is very beneficial. And then   kind of let, again, the people around you lead and be those positive lights that they can be, that's like how you're gonna grow, right? And then I think that goes along with an associate where, ⁓ again, kind of being humble, like, yes, I know a lot, but I don't know everything. And I learned stuff as much from the associates or how they do things differently as much as they may learn from me. And I think when you come to a situation more with ⁓ curiosity and...   really trying to find how you can learn and be better every day, then they only want to do the same. So you really have to lead by example, lead with curiosity, really come to work every day, just trying to do better for people around you. And I want to chime in. think you lead from your heart too. You have a passion for people and you have a passion for what you do, dentistry. Like you live, breathe, speak it all the time.   Even outside the office. You're always- Too hard, right? Shut it down. You're always seeking new things. You're always at speaking with Dr. Parks about, what do you think about this? Or how would you approach this rather than this point of, hey, I do it this way, you have to do it. You do approach curiosity. And I think the frequency that he's able to, the amount of time they spend together in this office, they share an actual office. ⁓ So they're able to compare.   Kiera Dent (03:45) ⁓ And now you look beautiful!   Jeff & Andrew (04:14) Everything all the time. So if at any time that they're both in the office together I could walk by they're always talking about a case or how they could improve something or how could we approach this or This is funny. What like what should we do? You know, it becomes this collaboration and less of a like we're having a calibration meeting this day for this time We're going to talk about X. It's kind of a constant Yeah, like I listen in on his new patient exams. He listens in on mine. And yeah, it's just a   constant thing. I think, honestly, again, that was a necessity that that started that way. And I think in our old office, it was actually me, Jeff and Dr. Parks all in a room that was really meant to be for me. And we all were crammed in there. And eventually Jeff moved because he got tired of listening to us talk about dentistry.   Kiera Dent (05:01) I was gonna say that's why   Jeff's not in the office. He's like, I don't wanna hear about this dentistry. hear about it way too much. You two have fun.   Jeff & Andrew (05:04) He's like, I gotta get away from Yeah. need some space. Yeah.   So that wouldn't have been a decision I probably would have made if we had all this space, right? So I think it is funny, like again, that necessity and just kind of trust in the process and learning what you can. But I'm like, I'm so grateful for those early years and like he and I have such a bond now that we're excited for our next associate and bringing him or her into our office and making them a part of our little dorky dental group.   Kiera Dent (05:32) love it. And   I mean, Jeff, you're right. But I if I'm to have a dentist, I want the dentist who talks nonstop about dentistry. I know that's not probably so nice at home. Jason has an alarm on our phone for us. So, Jeff, if you want to take like marriage tip from me and Jay, because I will talk about business forever. And he's like, shut down, girl. The alarm goes off at five every night. And that's when I have to stop talking work. And it goes off like it's every single day. Six o five. I know what time and I'm like, OK.   Jeff & Andrew (05:40) I'm   Hahaha   Kiera Dent (05:59) That's my time limit. So you want to talk about like a show? I'm like, I don't even know what I'm about. So it's a really handy thing for me to have to shut it down. But Andrew, I am curious on that. I think a lot of doctors struggle and I love how you talked about like, this isn't how I do it. Like, what do you think and how can we do this? I'm curious. So let's say you saw of a future associate, we'll use Dr. Parks right now, cause that's one you know, you won't know the future one's personality, but   Jeff & Andrew (06:01) Yeah.   Yeah.   Kiera Dent (06:27) Let's say you see dentistry that's not up to your standard with Dr. Parks. How do you go and have that conversation with him to where he feels supported, but at the same time, you don't allow your culture, your brand, the type of dentistry to go out the door without having, like, people don't know how to have this conversation because you're both dentists. So how do you handle that with Dr. Parks?   Jeff & Andrew (06:46) Yeah. So I think, ⁓ kind of bring it back to like what he's doing it for, right? So it's not about me seeing a problem, but it's like, hey, here's how this could maybe be a better outcome for your patient, right? Or I would like argue, I would like to kind of always spin and make myself an example. Like, hey, I used to do it this way, right? Like, or I used to do something different, but my old mentor who I love and admire, like she helped show me the way, right? And I've really learned a lot from her. So I think that's also where   like for our future associate, need to make sure that that is a key component of their culture is to be open and constantly learning and be curious. And ⁓ I think that is definitely a big goal of ours is to find that in the next person. And that's where we also feel very lucky with our associate. We know that that's not ⁓ very easy to find an associate and kind of have that success with it. So again, as much as I'm appreciative for Jeff.   I'm very appreciative for Dr. Parks too, and I think it shows in our relationship as well.   Kiera Dent (07:46) Yeah. Well, I think like also though, when you've built a practice to your size, you normally now get to be choosy and picky. I feel like when you're like a little bit smaller, it's kind of like, I got to like help someone wants to come work in this like amazing brown, purple, green popcorn ceiling and share an office with me, my husband, and you get to be in here too, like Harry Potter corners all the way around. But now you get to be even more choosy on who comes forward because you've got this amazing space. You've got the place where someone wants to come.   Jeff & Andrew (07:56) Yeah. Right.   Yeah. Seriously. Right.   Kiera Dent (08:14) And I think that's gonna be really awesome to watch you grow on that next one. So thank you for that. Jeff, I wanna pivot to you. I've watched your leadership. I've watched you grow. I've watched you run a team. I've watched you go from Gilbert to Jeff. I've watched you sit in meetings. It was so fun to see you in person. It has been far too long for me. It was pre-COVID since the last time I saw you. And we met in person and I watched you. You sit there with this inquisitive mind. You sit there with this, you've got a...   Jeff & Andrew (08:31) I know.   Kiera Dent (08:41) depth of knowledge that's just impressive to me. And also I've watched you grow in your leadership. I've seen you, I talked to Tiffany and you're in your community in leadership courses, you're doing pieces. I just wanna know, and Andrew, this is now where you're gonna like love on Jeff on this, of how have you gone from where you were to where you are today? Like I know that's a whole process and I know that's very broad, but just even thinking of some of the strokes that you've taken, I know you and Tiff have worked super hard. I'm gonna give like mad kudos to Tiffany and I'm sure you will too.   Jeff & Andrew (09:08) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (09:08) But   I'm just curious because I think leadership is so elusive for so many people. And yet I've watched you like take this on this, but you're also a baller. Like you don't get run over. You have hard conversations. You speak up. You're very brilliant in what you do. Andrew, I agree. Jeff's a machine. I watch him. He's like, all right, got my list. I got all these things. I'm going home. Andrew, this is what we're going to do. You think, Jeff, you think Andrew's running the show, but.   I know that who's really running it is you. Like you're like, all right, this is getting done. We're getting all this done. This is where the lights are going. Everybody move in on this day. But you do it with poise and grace. so I'm just curious at like tips for people who maybe are trying to evolve in their leadership, things that you've done to be the, like truly, I think you're a huge example of a successful leader. And so it's okay. This is your brag moment. I know it can be awkward, but I really am just so proud of you and excited to hear what you think has been part of that evolution of you.   Jeff & Andrew (09:37) Yeah.   Well, the first, thank you. That's like, I want to cry right now. Thank you. You don't often hear that. ⁓ So thanks for that. ⁓ Honestly, know, I had a little experience ⁓ in my past career about, ⁓ you know, it was an industry that's off offshore. So it's a difficult industry.   Kiera Dent (10:06) You're welcome.   I feel tear-eyed, Luke, because I'm just really proud of you. Like truly.   Jeff & Andrew (10:27) for me personally to enter into, know, with these rough, greasy, you know, I'm not scared of dirt, obviously it was geology, but, you know, a lot of people aren't socially aware who might be working with them, you know, so, you know, being gay in an industry like that, that's nobody's like, ⁓ did I offend somebody by what I said? That's, you know what I mean? So that's, you kind of get a little bit of a tough skin there, right? So I've had experience.   With that, I've had experience managing projects ⁓ offshore. I've had experience managing projects onshore. I grew up in a family that my dad, my parents are business owners and I was put to work for not a legal pay at a very young age. So I just learned like, I've got to work to do this stuff. then, you know, fast forward to meeting you guys when I was unhappy, I was like, what am I going to do? Right? So you guys, you, Tiffany,   the collaboration, the tools, the building blocks, the confidence, the empowerment that you were like, you can do it and you're the only one that is, right? ⁓ So that led me on it. And then we went into the catalyst of showing up to that office that day with a different vibe and then seeing that it works. ⁓ So then I think naturally we moved to this county from a very different county in Florida that a lot...   Kiera Dent (11:46) Thank   Jeff & Andrew (11:55) population was very different and we're in a very different population here. So we did have some fear coming in. So we were cautious about, you know, how we represented ourselves, if we made a big splash. And then as we realized the momentum of the practice and the service of what we were doing, it was gaining momentum and people came to us for our service and our dentistry. So then that gave us confidence to be like, okay,   this is what people want. And I think part of my mindset ⁓ in creating the vision and how the business that we want is thinking about past jobs and what did Andrew not like about ⁓ how he was treated by a mentor, previous employers, or how he had to follow a protocol to do this to the patient. And we realized, I kind of just have a challenging mentality, like why?   You know, like, can we do it different? Should we do it different? Yeah, we probably should, because that's what everybody wants, right? So then we started to see those little pieces gain success and the community be like, we're going to them because they do that different. Differently. Differently. Thank you. We call them by name, something as simple as that, you know. It's like, wow, that's a big difference. So then.   Kiera Dent (12:51) .   Mm-hmm.   Right.   Jeff & Andrew (13:14) I think I'd encourage people to start looking in their area. I didn't realize the opportunities that our county and like had around us, right? So I started to take advantage of that. I to the chamber, we joined the chamber. ⁓ And then that led me to an opportunity for leadership Catawba. We live in Catawba County. I was like, let me try this. was, you know, a small time investment in the big picture. And that introduced me to people in our area that I was like, you're   I can lean on you now and I can use you as a resource. How can we work together? Then I was just learned so much about our county and the riches of it, like what sets this county apart. And I was like, I love that. That's what we try to do in our business. So then, you know, as you learn about your surroundings and how like the local government works, you can start to make those contacts and start to go to those people and then you become a source to them as well. ⁓   So in that, I learned about other opportunities. took an HR class at our local, our community college. I was like, I should probably know some like legit HR stuff, right? Right? Like before we build this giant dental practice. So that led me to the community college, which the HR class was in the furniture academy. So that led me to a relationship where in a big furniture area where they were custom building as they were teaching students creating furniture for a dental practice. So.   That opened up a community door. Then we started with the building. The whole purpose of buying a building bigger than we need it is so we can put that vision forward and ⁓ create a big collaborative space. But in doing so within our own space, we did create a large conference room, a little kind of event space that we've welcomed Hickory Football Club in. are soccer teams, we've had Girl Scouts in, we've had other nonprofits in.   It's kind of become a space that we can host and collaborate with the community and welcome them into our space. I kind of love that. I think it's been the curiosity and kind of just little incremental like, cool, this sounds cool. I'm going to do this. And then that leads to so much. And we were even just saying like the whole like our building is so big. Like we have an area that we actually offer like a nonprofit in the area to come. were they were losing their space and they came here and it's led to so now I feel so fulfilled that I'm   helping someone in a way that's not dentistry, which I never thought I would do. And so it just feels good to like given that way that we never imagined and it's led to so much more. So I think that curiosity is led to that. That's where with Jeff, like he really is like so amazing at being good, being, he's living by that example, right? Like he's gonna be here every day. He's gonna be put in the work. He's gonna do all these things and he's inspired now that he did the leadership we've sent.   one of our other staff member or team members. And then we've got a third one that's about to go to leadership Katawba. So it's just kind of led to a lot of inspiration for the people around us. And yeah, I think that the more you can kind of be there for others and let others kind of lean on you, it's just really, like that sense of community is there. And I think that's where too, you kind of start realizing you're not there for everyone and everyone's not going to love me as a dentist, but I get, there'll be enough, right? There's enough people. yeah. And we feel good about what we're doing.   And we know we're raising people up and it's raising us up too. So, and I think it's really important to ⁓ provide opportunities, like learning opportunities outside the practice, because that's where connections really get made.   Kiera Dent (16:41) Yeah.   I Jeff, was just I agree with you, Andrew. What I was hearing, I'm like, I always am listening for like, what's the pattern? What's the silver lining? Like what really sets you apart? And I think Jeff, it was truly hearing the curiosity and also the drive to be the best. Like I should go learn HR. Like this is a zone I'm gapped in. And instead of it being like, well, let's just like find some for you. Like, no, I'm going to go learn. I'm going to hunker in. Then I'm going to figure out how I need to delegate this out. And I have a sign over here from Gandhi that we've given our leaders this year and it's   Jeff & Andrew (17:15) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (17:20) A sign of a good leader is not how many followers you have, but how many leaders you create. And I think, Jeff, that's something you're doing really incredibly well of creating more leaders around you and rising more people up around you. And Andrew, the same thing for you. You're rising these doctors up around you. You're bringing your team up with you. And I think it's so beautiful to see. So I'm just really proud of both of you. And it's like, it's just such a fun thing to be able to give back to both of you and to just highlight how many amazing things you have.   My last question for us tonight is where you're wrapping up is what's next? Like what's next on the radar? Like business-wise, personal-wise, like we built this, we had this vision, but I believe like if we stop dreaming and we stop evolving, then we stop growing as well. It does not have to be large, Andrew. You don't have to have like a huge next, like we're building ⁓ a city. I could see you coming up to that big, all right, Jeff, we're like build our own city now. But like what's next? Like what's in the next like one, two, five years?   What's it looking like for your practice, for each other, where you guys at? And I'll let anybody take this on. What's next for you guys?   Jeff & Andrew (18:21) Yeah, well, think for, well, I did want to say one more thing about ⁓ inspiring leaders, because I we were talking about associates. But another thing that I have to always bring up is my mom was a single mom, four kids, because you were talking about ⁓ our parents earlier. And so single mom, four kids. She was also a dental assistant. So I think I grew up around dentistry. I grew up with a mom that wasn't making a lot of money for what she did. So I appreciate so much our team and my assistants.   I don't leave a room without thanking them for what they did in front of the patient. So that's probably the most important thing I've taught ⁓ our associate is to always be thankful for the people that are helping you do what you do. So I think living every day and coming into work with that mentality is super helpful. So I wanna keep that.   Kiera Dent (19:08) that and I'm also gonna say Jeff you had no hope when you met Andrew there was no hope for you to get out of dentistry like mom, family, his life, if you were destined for dentistry when you and Andrew met so I love that I'm like wow now hearing your mom I was like ⁓ he he saw you from a mile away not only did he like fall in love with you but he's like ⁓ this his life to be changed forever   Jeff & Andrew (19:12) Yeah, I know. Yeah.   I should have saw that coming. Yeah, he was. He's going right in.   Yeah. Yeah. I was like, need that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.   Yeah. So yeah, I think my, my next goal will be to help us find a new associate. So our daughter parks and I both are super busy now or both feeling like, gosh, it would be really nice to be able to take some time off and not feel like we're putting the other one in our tough pickle. You know? So we also have a lot of great things to teach our next associate and, ⁓   I think what used to scare our team is to think about that growth. And now our team feels empowered to be like, we're not so sure about that person. They speak up and they're our guardians. So I think what's really cool is like, I've kind of let some of this go and now I get to really focus on my dentistry and learning more and what can I improve? What do we wanna bring into the office to offer more patients or how can we be better every day? So, yeah.   Kiera Dent (20:18) Amazing. I   love that. Okay, that's what it's on for Andrew. Jeff, what about for you? What's next for Jeff's world?   Jeff & Andrew (20:24) a vacation in two weeks. We got one planned. got do. We do. Yes. It's our first two week vacation ever in my life. I'm really nervous. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (20:26) Yeah, where you wanna go?   Like be so excited. You should listen to all the other podcasts. I'm always like, owners, we need leave because if you don't leave, can't find the gaps in your practice. So like, this is the best thing to do. So don't freak out, Andrew. Just realize you're doing your business the best service. You're leaving. You can see the gaps. You can fix them when you come home. Yeah. That's how I justify it. like, no, the business needs me to leave, obviously.   Jeff & Andrew (20:39) Yeah. I know.   Yeah. Yeah. Okay.   I like it. Yes, that's great. Yeah. Yeah.   And I will say, I feel excited now because I can see people knowing that we're leaving. Everybody's making sure everybody they're looking ahead at the schedule. They're making sure I get people in that I want to see Megan. Sure, everything's going to be OK. And it's just awesome. I used to stress so much about taking a day off and then now to know like we're about to take two weeks off. It's really amazing.   Kiera Dent (21:19) Amazing. Okay. Well, I think that's good. Just like we need this. I need this. You need to shut it off and we're not talking about history.   Jeff & Andrew (21:25) I wouldn't do it without.   I wouldn't have done it without him. That's another big thing, right? So he's pushed me. I'm like, Jeff, are we okay to do this? Like, that's another thing I probably would not have said to I know I need to write. So you kind of need those people to help kind of make you see the other side and say, okay, we're okay. And we do need it. And everyone has told me that like, I know you're thinking you don't need it or that you are going to stress out, but you're going to come back so invigorated and so excited.   Kiera Dent (21:49) always tell everybody the best things I do for my business are when I do what I call white noise time. And I check out what I do, Andrew and Jeff, you guys might take my tip. I literally don't turn my phone on at all. So like no one can connect me. If I go out of the country, I do not connect to wifi. It's a smidge creepy for my family. So like Jason usually turns it on. And then I get angry for about two days. So I'm like detoxing of having like everything. And I'm like mad at Jason. I feel like I'm putting time out. I feel so angry that I've just got to sit here and read a stupid book.   Jeff & Andrew (22:06) Hahaha! ⁓   Yeah.   You   Kiera Dent (22:20) once the adrenaline's   gone, I'm like, ⁓ and then my best ideas actually show up. So, better or for worse, get ready, Jeff. He'll probably come home with like million ideas, but, and you should probably have alarms that like you're only allowed to talk down the street for like one hour a day. Like that's it, because of course it'll like come up, but it's also shocking when I did that last summer, Jason and I, took a whole month off and I'm like,   Jeff & Andrew (22:25) Weird. Yeah, that's awesome.   Probably.   Kiera Dent (22:44) I don't actually know what to talk to you about if we don't talk dentistry. So I had to like, refine myself, refine our relationship of like, what do we do beyond dentistry? This is helpful. So anyway, okay, going on a week trip, where are going?   Jeff & Andrew (22:47) I   We're going to Sweden for two weeks. Yeah, we're excited.   Kiera Dent (22:58) I'm so ⁓   Jeff & Andrew (23:04) I that. I'll be too. For like a minute.   Be prepared.   Yeah.   So I think we there's a there's something we want to do internally that we've been kind of mulling over and kind of taking a couple steps to we brought somebody on that I think we can actually elevate and help create this. So it's a it's a younger team member and he's got really good skills ⁓ with the lane that we want.   him to go down. So we kind of want to empower him to build this, ⁓ not for us, but with us, ⁓ and kind of create this position for himself. And kind of, it would be job sustainability, know, and have him, elevate him to build a team under him as well. ⁓ At the same time, you know, we want to   Kiera Dent (23:57) Yeah.   Totally.   Jeff & Andrew (24:14) We need to fill the rest of our building. We've, ⁓ we're working with some nonprofits. brought one in, we have two more suites to go. And, ⁓ so I want to continue that and make sure, ⁓ one thing that we're not like putting for lease signs out there. want to make sure that, you know, serves our vision and serves the community, the people that come in. and we were also, you know, we have our own building to create something. So I don't know, there's a lot.   Kiera Dent (24:45) amazing. I do too. I need to... I was gonna say this is where you need the vacation Andrew and Jeff so you like shut it down all the great but I my best idea the podcast literally came when I was hiking Half Dome Yosemite like I'm not even talking about work and I was like this is a great idea I should do that so here we are like five years later but   Jeff & Andrew (24:45) I see a lot in the future. All good things. Lots of dreamings needed.   Yeah. That's it.   Yeah, yeah They're kind of like just   waiting and I think you're right I think this little white noise period could just be like, there they all are. I totally agree   Kiera Dent (25:14) It really   happens. It's weird. And I feel like as owners, we are in such a grind, like we don't know how to shut it off. But when we do, I'm like, that's when the best ideas show up. Like best ideas hit us in like when we wake up in the morning or when we're in the shower or when we're on a run or when we're on a hike or, I'm like, okay, so clearly I need to schedule more of that in consistently. So that way my best ideas can show up and we can keep evolving. But guys, you should be so proud of yourself. Like go enjoy that vacation. I'm so excited for you to go to Sweden.   the chocolate, please. mean, you hear it. But, ⁓ but no, just as as someone who's watched you evolve, I hope you guys just take in like, the kudos. I hope everybody listening, you're hearing like how they went through this, how they built their vision. And the thing I think I really glean from today's podcast are one, you two really lean on each other as a very safe duo of you two trust each other. You're in your lanes, you allow each other to be experts, you allow the like, nerdiness of either side to come out and you love that about the other person.   Also like really being true to yourselves, to your vision and building an entire team around you. I think so many people are scared to be themselves. And Jeff, thank you for sharing like agreed being gay, being different, having a different maybe, especially with the town you're in. I think that that was probably a big step and leap for you, but to stay true to who you are and you'll find that you will attract your tribe. You'll attract in the people that want to be a part of it ⁓ and not being afraid to share that. So I'm just so proud of you guys.   I am so grateful you came on. It was so fun to highlight you, to share about you. Are there any last things you guys wanna leave as we wrap up today? I'll start with Jeff first. Last thoughts, anything you wanna add to today?   Jeff & Andrew (26:48) Yeah, I just want to make sure that ⁓ you, Dental A team and Tiffany are really recognize, like understand your value because at every step of the way, you guys were always there for us. I could pick up the phone, Tiffany will pick it, she'll answer. It could be about plumbing. It could be about team. It could be about operations. You guys are always there for us consistently every step of the way. If you don't have an answer.   You know, we brainstorm and we are like, okay, or you'll find it. You know, it's, I couldn't thank you guys enough. You did. I tell you every time, but it's true. You guys changed my life, both of our lives, honestly, ⁓ for the better. And we wouldn't be here today if we didn't have your encouragement, your support, and your backing behind us this whole time. So from the bottom of my heart, thank you, Kiara. Thank you, Tiffany. Thank you, Den-L-A team.   Yes, thank you, Tiffany. Thank you. Thank you both for everything. Tell a team we were like so it like a pretty shit for you guys here. Like I remember we were talking about earlier meeting senior on the plane, giving you the brownie brittle. And I think I go back to like our first couple meetings and I I think you guys were like the first. No, you were the first that helped us not just see like when we were doing like team meetings about dentistry. It also was how does this relate to your personal?   Kiera Dent (27:46) Thank you.   Jeff & Andrew (28:15) And I think that's where the that could have been the switch you were asking about earlier. Sorry, it took me this long to realize that's what I love. That was the switch because it went from like, what can I teach you about dentistry to like, how can we all just live better lives? How can we come to work and be happy? How can you go home and use what you're learning here with your your house? And I think every time Tiffany comes in, we talk sometimes more about personal things going on at home and how this relates to work. And it's really just made that our culture. And I think   whether it's me and my weight loss, that's something too. lost 90 pounds three years or four years ago now. that's, thank you. And that's kind of led to like we did a whole weight loss program with our whole staff. Like we learned nutrition and like we made things not about just dentistry, but like how we all can just live better lives. And I think that's really what's kind of just blown us up. So thank you so much for all of that.   Kiera Dent (28:48) look amazing, Andrew, like, amazing.   proud mama over here and just huge like thank you because to hear clients, to hear people that we didn't know prior to dentistry, like dentistry is our platform, life is our passion and to hear that you're thriving, that you are these amazing humans that are fulfilled, that is what we want. We don't want just dentistry. Like I said dentistry is our platform, life is our passion and so   And like, Andrew, I saw you I was like, my gosh, you look like so great. And Jeff, you just look vibrant and you've gone through so many pieces and yet you're still smiling. You're still happy. You still, like you said, it's life. This is what it is. And we just get lucky enough to find each other through dentistry. So thank you for being a part of our family. Tiff's been incredible. And I'm just excited for like the next level and to continue to watch you guys flourish. Like I said, my biggest passion is making the best people have the best lives and truly win. So thanks for being on the podcast. I appreciate it.   Jeff & Andrew (29:56) Thank you.   Kiera Dent (29:57) you. ⁓   Jeff & Andrew (29:58) Thank you for having us.   Kiera Dent (30:00) of course. And for all of you listening, I hope you were inspired today by Jeff and Andrew. They're people that have inspired me and I hope you saw yourself through the writing in the fabric of their story to see the things that are possible from Jeff not feeling like he even knew how to be into dentistry to running this huge practice and inspiring people to Andrew growing and evolving and bringing on things that he never thought were possible.   I hope all of you see the potential within yourselves and ⁓ I'd love to be a part of your story and your journey. So reach out, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on The Dental Team A Podcast.   Jeff & Andrew (30:32) Thank you.  

Kiera talks with Chief Operations Manager Jeff and Dr. Andrew Sugg of Green Park Dentistry about identifying your dreams as dental leaders, and finding the path to get there. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today is such a special magical day on the podcast. I have two of my absolute favorite human beings. We have known each other for so many years. They are incredible, incredible dentists, practice owners, managers, like you name it. These two men are some of the most brilliant people I've watched in dentistry and I've watched them grow from beginning, very basics.   to this masterpiece of their life, of their community, of this practice that I truly think is such an example in this world. So Jeff and Andrew, welcome to the show. How are you today?   Jeff & Andrew (00:33) Great, thank you for having us. Doing well, thank you for having us.   Kiera Dent (00:37) You're so welcome. And I know it'll get a little weird, because when there's three of us here, it's always like, who's supposed to talk? So I'll try really hard to just call someone out. But honestly, guys, how does it feel to be, and I'll ask Jeff first. So again, I'll just riff through this. How does it feel from when we first met to where you are today? How does it feel? What would you even say? What's a word? Or what's the expression of where you started to where you are today? How was that experience for you, Jeff?   Jeff & Andrew (00:42) Yeah.   ⁓ if I had to sum it up in a word, looking back at myself in this experience, I think my younger self would look at today and be astonished that one, this is the career path I'm in that I didn't set out to. ⁓ you know, two, I started in this dental industry with zero experience other than knowing Andrew and listening to what he talks about when he comes home, to today.   that we have gone from a team of seven in this tiny building with five ops we started with to now a team of 20, 17 ops in a 16,000 square foot building. I literally cannot, I have to pinch myself being like, we did this, take a minute, let's reflect. I'm still kind of coming down from all of the renovation and the moving and calibration. ⁓   So every now and then I have to remind myself like, wait, this is our place, we did this. So take a minute and reflect. And I'm still kind of battling with that because I'm used to going full force. So I'm astonished.   Kiera Dent (02:16) It's amazing.   And Jeff, I'm so glad you said that. we've known each other. Jeff and Andrew have been clients of ours for years. This is like a client spotlight where we bring on people to just, I think, share their journey, share their experience. And for me to have like a proud mama moment of just being so freaking proud of where you are. And I agree, I'm astonished. It's not something when I met you too that I thought, would it be capable? But I do think it's all for all of us, like a pinch me moment. And for me,   What I love is seeing my favorite humans just flourish. And I feel like you guys give back to your team, you give back to your community. You're the good guys that I always want to win. And so I'm your biggest raving fan over here. Yes, have the life, have the experiences, do the things because you're just amazing humans that are contributing so much to this world. So I love that. Andrew, want to hear, and also Jeff, always you should just love Andrew so much and the fact that he brought you into dentistry. Welcome to the best profession ever. So kudos on that, Andrew.   Jeff & Andrew (03:07) ⁓ huh. Yes.   Thank you.   Kiera Dent (03:12) What about for you? How's this journey been from where you started? You and Jeff, think it's like adorable. Jeff literally had no clue. I remember Jeff, you're like, I don't even know what these things.   Jeff & Andrew (03:20) That's exactly what I was going to say. Like Andrew brought me and I was like, Hi, Kiera, I'm Jeff. And I don't know what I'm doing and I think I need your help. So I do have to throw in a kudos, a super thank you for guiding me and helping me get to this place. So yeah, you guys really helped kind of us.   Kiera Dent (03:32) my gosh, I   can't take the huge credit. Tiffany has been like the mass superstar for you guys. I've been able to be the proud mom on the side that's just freaking rooting for you all day long. But yes, I do remember definitely like, hi, your adorable glasses. Like you guys were just like dressed in white I think the night I met you and hi guys, super nice to meet you. So, Andrew, didn't mean to cut you off, go ahead.   Jeff & Andrew (03:47) No, it's okay.   I think that's it though, is you guys have really helped bridge that like my clinical side and love of dentistry and what I've always really enjoyed and still geek out over all the time. And you helped pull Jeff in and help him understand how he can kind of make this what he wanted to be. And I think that was something that kind of stuck with us ever since we first met y'all was that was on that weekend that we heard was   Like if you're not happy in your office, there's one person to blame and it's you, right? So it's like, you have the power, you have the energy, the time to put into that and kind of make it what you want. And I guess that's where like, my word would be excited. Cause I do feel like the more that we lean in and kind of just trust our gut and do the things that we kind of really want to do, it becomes more fun. We kind of are instilling in our team what you've instilled in us to kind of take that leadership and   work towards their goals and find their secret secrets that kind of stand out and really make them shine. And I think it's just, it's been really fulfilling and really exciting for us.   Kiera Dent (04:57) That's amazing. And I think for both of you, I remember, I feel like there was a pivotal moment. I don't know what year it was, but I feel like there was a moment where you both just hunkered down of what do want our life to look like? What do we want our practice to be? What do we this to look like? And I feel like that was your, I call them lightning bolt moments. And I feel like it was just like, from there, I feel like that's where momentum just skyrocketed for you. And I don't know if you guys remember that from persons on the outside looking in.   That's something that I really watched, but I'm just curious, like, did you feel that way? I'll start with Andrew first on this one. Did you feel that way? And if you did, like, okay, give me the thumbs up or like, yes, did you feel that way? That's question one. Let me be a better host here. Andrew, did you feel that that was something that changed for you guys in your practice?   Jeff & Andrew (05:37) Yes, no, I definitely did. it is hard though for me to put pinpoint. I think I had to lean into trusting having Jeff here and having you guys help him. It just allowed me to really focus and be that dreamer that I am. I'm definitely the dreamer. He's the implementer. So I think you helped us to find roles and understand kind of where we really can help each other, you know, kind of reach those goals together. So.   Yeah, I don't know the day or time, but I definitely felt like it was soon after meeting you guys and we just really felt like, okay, we can do this. it just, yeah, it's just magical. ⁓   Kiera Dent (06:14) It's truly magical. Thank you. Jeff, what about for you?   Jeff & Andrew (06:18) Yeah, ⁓ I remember several moments and I think a lot of ⁓ it was like a light bulb. I remember it was, you know, the career change and all that. It was hard for me, you know, going from the scientific, you know, yeah, marine geology, marine geophysics, so like offshore to now dealing with people.   Kiera Dent (06:22) you   Is it geology? Am I like making that up?   Jeff & Andrew (06:43) you patients, the public, it was crazy. I don't know what world I was in. But then I realized, you know, I was coming into the office. I am not enjoying coming into the office. I'm not enjoying this. And I started to see, you know, you know, at the time we called it staff or employees. And it was like that. Why are we doing what we're doing? Right. So you guys helped me realize that I'm the catalyst to change. We are. ⁓ And   Kiera Dent (06:43) Yeah.   It's real!   Jeff & Andrew (07:11) We had past experience of being treated poorly or maybe unfairly or just feeling unfulfilled. And I started to realize we're in this industry that I'm not enjoying going to work, so nobody else is enjoying going to work. Who can change it? That's me. And then I started to notice that it felt like people in their roles and their careers within the office felt unfulfilled or underappreciated. And it's like a dental assistant isn't just a dental assistant.   do the work that the dentist to allow the dentist to do his job. So without that, it's essential. So why don't we treat them like essential? So there was that moment that I walked into that door and I had you and Tiffany in my ear like, come in with a different energy, present differently. And I did, and I remember that moment. And I remember seeing people be like, whoa, this is a little different. Like, this could be a fun day. And I'm like, this is going to be a fun.   career. And then that started, okay, how can I make people's roles more fulfilling? How can we create growth opportunity? How can we show them that there's opportunity in our practice and they have the power to grasp that, to have a fulfilling life? We go to work every day for eight hours or longer, you know, so if they're not fulfilled there, how are we serving the people that are serving us?   Kiera Dent (08:38) That's incredible. And I think Jeff, this just highlights a lot of your leadership and like the growth I've seen in you. I remember Cranky Jeff, who did not enjoy going to the wards. Like, what is it? Yeah.   Jeff & Andrew (08:45) They call him Gilbert, that's my middle name. So that's   the ⁓ alias for Cranky Jeff.   Kiera Dent (08:53) like it. Yeah, I do remember those days and you were not happy in this and I don't think Andrew was super happy. Andrew, you've always been like one of the most passionate dentists I've ever met, which is so fun to see you like light up when you talk about dentistry and do all the pieces. Jeff, on the other hand, I think you kind of like drug him into this like, Hey, I need you in here. Gilbert, it sounds like was the one that and then Jeff came to the scene realizing like the the space for you and Jeff, that's something I really love to highlight is I think so many leaders don't realize it's within them.   Jeff & Andrew (09:01) you   Yeah.   Kiera Dent (09:21) because it doesn't look the way that they thought it was going to be. I just I'm excited to get into that. And I'm just curious. So you briefly mentioned you guys had this small practice in my mind. It's like purple or pink walls. Is that really true? Like inside?   Jeff & Andrew (09:33) It started   that way. It was like very dark green, brown, had purple. Yes, there was some magenta. Yeah. Yes. Very dark brown. Popcorn ceiling too. ⁓   Kiera Dent (09:39) knew it. It was like a dollhouse in my mind. Like it was like this like little like very short like ceilings. ⁓   Yes, not that great.   I remember being like, Tiff, this is where they work. Like, okay, looks like this. Like, I mean, how could you not have fun, Jeff? There's like colors of every rainbow on all the walls for you. Like, okay. ⁓ but you guys went from this small building to now this massive practice. You've got all these team members. but something I, I'm probably going to like butcher your vision just a little bit. but I remember hearing it when you said it and it stuck with me again. I think I'll get like the gist of it, but I remember you saying like, we are going to be like,   Jeff & Andrew (09:51) Yeah.   Yeah, yeah.   Kiera Dent (10:17) the dentist that the community chooses. Something like that. don't know how, I feel like I'm close to it, but I really loved that it was like, okay, we're gonna impact our community really largely. We want to be the place that our community chooses. And you did this whole expansion and I'm just curious, like, okay, what worked well? What didn't work well? What were like, let's just kind of go on like a fun road. I'm not gonna pick who like you guys can tag team over there, but I'm just curious of.   You went from Gilbert Jeff, who's angry to this like weird house that you're in to now this like amazing business building community. Like the impact you guys have in your community is amazing. You have all these team members. Like what were the highlights? were the like walk me through? I need to know what did you do right? What did you wish you would have done? What advice do you have for other people looking to go down this journey? That's something I think you've done so well.   but I think like it didn't come without a lot of learning and a lot of growth that I'd love you guys to just highlight. But also you did some things really freaking well too, so highlight that too. So ⁓ it's over to both of you, whomever wants to pick up the ball and run with it, it's yours. And tag team, because I'm sure both of you have very different perspectives on how that took place.   Jeff & Andrew (11:23) Well,   I can start because I think one thing for me that's been really amazing is like, really, you guys helped be our cheerleaders to say like, hey, if you stick with these things, you stick with these systems, it's really allowed us to kind of be ourselves. And in a way, that's what feels unreal. Like it feels really magical that like we get to be ourselves every day. We get to stick to like what our core values are. And it feels lucky that people appreciate that. And that shouldn't be like.   rare in the world today, but it really does feel that way. So I feel really lucky to come to work. I feel lucky. get to be honest and authentic with the people around me. And I think ⁓ that's been like the biggest, coolest thing to me, like through all of this is I think having you all as cheerleaders, I was really like the biggest thing because you move into this building and increase in our team size is kind of like, that happening? And then I'm like, I'm going to go do the dentistry. You, you guys figure it out and you're like, yeah, we're to hire some people.   Kiera Dent (12:17) Andrew's always pushing it off like, Jeff, I'm gonna   go do this, like good luck on all the fires. No wonder you a good one. I'll put it.   Jeff & Andrew (12:19) Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, can you stop being   the dreamer for like a year? need a break. Stop dreaming. Come down for second. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. would say so, you know, kind of piggybacking off what we touched on earlier with elevating the team and that sort of thing. So when we did that, was kind of like positivity just keeps.   Kiera Dent (12:26) He just can't stop. That's amazing.   Jeff & Andrew (12:46) building, right? It's contagious. People want to be around it. People like it. They want to feel that way. So we did some work internally with the team and then we realized the team likes it. You know, this is real, you know? So then that immediately transfers to the patients and then to the community. So there's kind of like the little trickle effect there. So when patients start to come in and they're like, this is kind of fun. Everybody enjoys their job. I enjoy coming here. ⁓   or when I walk in, I feel happy, you know? It's like, that's the vibe we wanted and that Andrew and Dr. Parks, their dental work is exceptional. So pair it with that. And then the word gets out and it just continues to snowball. So as that's happening, we're like, maybe we should expand. Okay, so I think we can take on somebody else. Then we were, the plans kind of evolved and there was the first plan was to ⁓ double the size of the building that we were in.   Um, but then COVID hit. pre COVID we're like, we're going to do this. Let's plan it. We've got enough land to double the building. Let's get all this done. We actually used our waiting room as an extra spare room because we are kind of outgrowing our space. So business was getting bigger, but the project was not moving along at all. So we cut into the waiting room and we made six rooms and we're like, can we sustain this? Yes. We sustained it immediately. So, um,   Kiera Dent (14:04) Yeah.   Clever.   Jeff & Andrew (14:14) After COVID hit, said, shoot, what are we going to do? Like, we can't afford this expansion anymore. And then what does the timeline look like that just went out the window? we're like, let's pivot. If we were going to spend X amount of dollars here for this, it ended up being ⁓ about 2000 workable square feet that we would add to the practice. ⁓ So we started looking at, there buildings for sale around? And we kind of had a vision a long time ago.   Kiera Dent (14:37) Mm-hmm.   Jeff & Andrew (14:45) even before considering moving the practice itself, like there's some cool buildings in our community that could look beautiful. ⁓ So maybe we look into some of those ugly ones and that's what we end up doing. So we identified a building that was way bigger than what we needed. ⁓ However, the thing that we identified was the plumbing was around the exterior between the levels. So we thought that's super expensive.   Kiera Dent (14:58) Hahaha   art.   Jeff & Andrew (15:13) you know, ground up. So let's utilize some of this plumbing. We interviewed ⁓ several contractors. We chose one to do the original project expanding that building, but we chose another for this project because of our interview. So it took ⁓ a lot of back and forth to figure out who's going to work best with us and who's really going to build in some cost savings. Like with the building that we did buy,   We made sure that the contractor that we hired was going to retain as much material as they could. We had solid doors. like, save the doors. We'll paint them or reuse them. I don't want to buy a ton of new doors. we were able, the relationship started well. It ended well also, but that was the building blocks. Like, are you going to work with me or are you going to be like, let's tear it down and start fresh to make a buck? ⁓   Kiera Dent (15:53) Yeah.   Mm-hmm.   Jeff & Andrew (16:07) So that was a huge win. So we made a really good relationship with the contractor there. And then ⁓ he guided us through. And I think, you know, in the planning stage, architecture and engineering took a lot. And those were, ⁓ those were really the holdup, pretty much the engineer. So I would say stress on the engineering part first, because it's hard to make changes later, just because they don't typically work as fast, I guess.   Kiera Dent (16:33) for sure.   That's true. ⁓   Jeff & Andrew (16:36) takes longer, or in our case it was.   But ⁓ I mean, it might seem like you're being redundant about layout and switches and these sort of things. ⁓ It's not. Visit the practice as many times as you can while it's in construction. Talk to everybody on a day-to-day basis. I popped in here so many times and was like, I don't like where that light is, or people don't always listen. it...   stinks to be like, hey, I prepared all this stuff and this is what I want done. This is where I want everything and nobody looks at it. So it's like, you got to be there in person and kind of guide them. ⁓   Yeah, well, I also kind of I think you kind of point out like to make is ⁓ we really stuck to like our our goals and just ambition and just knowing that like, hey, we're just doing good things. And we're just trying to do good for the community. And like, how can we expand? And it was scary at times expansion. It was always very scary till we got here. Like we say, jokingly, when we were at the old building and we come over here, even bringing the staff, you could tell everybody's like, what the heck, this place is really big. We're going to lose each other like   Kiera Dent (17:36) As always.   Jeff & Andrew (17:46) We're not going to hear in our old office, I could hear our front desk and I could actually like tell them like, actually don't do that. You know, like I can correct people from like the room, you know, down the hallway and here it is a lot more space, but it's like, once we got here, we're like, how the heck did we all fit there? And then you just quickly fill the space and it's really, it's exciting. Cause yeah, I don't know. ⁓ you just gotta really like trust in, ⁓ your, process and your values and what you're working towards. And I do feel like it has been.   Kiera Dent (17:46) Hmm?   Jeff & Andrew (18:15) building up, like we're going to celebrate our 10th year in practice next year. And I think that's what feels unreal. Oh my God, it's this year. next year. Yeah. Next year. Sorry. Oh, year. Yeah. Oh, see? Don't even know. We need a break. But it just flies by, right? Like it's just... Yeah, we celebrate every year. For sure. And I think that is like, it is just kind of in a way, you just kind of stick to like little goals, kind of just keep it moving those like, hey, how can we make this better? What can we do? Oh, we need space. How do we solve that problem?   Kiera Dent (18:26) I don't know, it's just not dirty. Pop this celebration all the years. ⁓   Jeff & Andrew (18:43) and necessity just helped kind of push us along. And yeah, I think if we would have done the building before COVID, we probably would still be in our old office and kind of wishing we had more space. But in a weird way, I'm really happy that things worked out the way they did. ⁓ yeah, we've ended up here. So it's been amazing. I'd say on a team perspective too, like the team was really scared to be honest, like moving over here. There were concerns. ⁓ But... ⁓   Kiera Dent (18:58) always.   Jeff & Andrew (19:10) You know, when we said it first, were like, we're do, we're, we're going to do this instead. And they were like, Oh, so I think keeping them regularly informed and kind of showing them the things that we're doing. like, we made them a part of the process so they could be excited about it. We took them to visit when milestones were done. We'd like, Hey, meet over there. We'll, we'll talk about it. Um, we kept them involved in the process. And I mean, we we weren't like financially open about all of the things, but it was nice to be able to like, listen, we've got to buy.   cabinets and cabinets cost this much money. You know what I mean? So ⁓ we could do it, but we have to do this. So we want to take care of it too. So it instilled value and it's still excitement. And then helping, you know, getting votes on like color choices or that sort of thing involved them. And then before the move, they were really nervous about what it was going to be like in a space as large bringing on new team members. So with the help from y'all Tiffany, we   Kiera Dent (19:42) Yeah, yeah. huh.   Jeff & Andrew (20:08) We were like, okay, everybody write down what the specific concerns are. And then we're going to talk about how we're going to combat that. ⁓ So we're going to prep you with like the solution before a problem even occurs. And that was, that was helpful. And then we did move in one weekend, long weekend ourselves with some movers. It was crazy. And everybody pitched in and everybody just had fun doing it. And it was Labor Day weekend, so we had an extra day. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (20:20) So smart.   Amazing.   You're like, okay, we'll do it. I mean, Labor Day seems very fitting. It's labor, it's very intensive.   Jeff & Andrew (20:41) I know, right?   Yeah. But we didn't require anybody. like, hey, we're doing this. Like nobody's required to, but if you want to, we would love it and we'll make it fun. And it was good. then like, what, less than a month after we got slammed at the hurricane in North Carolina, the mountain. So that was a hurdle. We had a generator that was took the longest to get in the last thing installed. One the expensive things we bought and they didn't hook it up. Because the gas inspection.   Kiera Dent (20:49) and   Shoot. Uh-huh.   Thank   Jeff & Andrew (21:11) So double check your inspections, make sure the gas inspection is ⁓ like.   Kiera Dent (21:14) Yes.   Yeah, make sure   it's actually all prepped for in case of hurricane. But like, kudos to you guys. Like, I'm so proud of you and to hear, I love the two different perspectives. And I think something I hear is you are true to yourselves. want like, knowing that you want to be, like I said, I probably like butchered your vision just a little bit. Sorry on that. Like being the dentist that the community chooses and being the place that we can serve them. Well, you can only serve so many patients in six ops, which is like a makeshift six op. We were like five, realistically five and a half. So,   Jeff & Andrew (21:21) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (21:48) It's like, it's not like, if you build them, they will come. You guys already knew you had made this footprint. You knew what you wanted to do. I feel like you guys really hunkered in. You're like, we're going to be a part of this community. This is where we want to be. We want to change the lives of our employees. And I feel like in doing so, I think that almost gave you the, the steam. It's not like something I really love about both of you is on paper, you guys have really sexy numbers that I'm always like, love having them as clients. Like great job over there.   Jeff & Andrew (22:14) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (22:15) But as   human beings, mean, right? As a consultant, you're like, all right, like, look at my perfect, like, model students over here. Well, you guys are one of them. And I'm really proud of the numbers you put up, and I'm proud of the dentistry you do. But the piece is you grew because you wanted to for the impact. You didn't grow for the ego associated with it. And I think that that's so paramount because I think that that's why you guys still are happy. I think that's why you love coming to work.   going through that mayhem, if it's not your passion project, if it's not something you really want to do to serve and to give back and to have a bigger vision beyond the dollar signs, I think the dollar signs for you were secondary and the community and the impact was number one. And I think that's why, like, of course you got to pay for it. I mean, there's no doubt about that. I mean, maybe you guys are truly children of like the billionaires and who knows what world and I didn't know that about you. I'm pretty confident you're not yourself made of where you are over there, but like.   Jeff & Andrew (23:01) No. ⁓   Kiera Dent (23:06) Looking at that, feel like that's a huge probably differentiator of your success because it was built from passion, love, and a desire to give back while also being incredibly good. Like Andrew, you're an amazing clinician. And I think that having, like you said, Jeff, top-notch dentistry, Jeff, you're amazing at building this culture and this community of people that love and serve. I think combine that together, then want to give it back to your community. I feel like your success was inevitable and I'm just really proud of you. And Jeff, to hear about going to the inspections, I'm like, yeah, good for you because   How annoying is it when you walk in, like my husband and when we were building our house, they were gonna put our huge AC unit on the one side of our house that I could actually put like planter boxes and have stairs. And I was like, why don't we just move this over here? My husband tells me all the time, like, Kiera, that was one of your best moves. And I'm like, yes, because the function and the flow, like it would have been all of our neighbors. Where do you think their AC unit is? Right in the middle of the only usable space on the side of the house and they all put it. And I'm like, you're welcome. Or like little things like, like all of it.   Jeff & Andrew (23:56) Yeah, everything. Yeah. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (24:03) And so   just like making it a space that you wanna be in that you're proud of, I just really love and like hearing, I mean, you had an obstacle right after you started and I think some people could have gotten really down, but it's like, no, we built something bigger. It's not like a burn and churn. You guys wanna be there for the long haul. You want this to be a place you're proud of and I think that that just bleeds through. So I'm really proud of you and thanks for sharing that journey. And I wanna pivot to highlight both of you just a smidge because Andrew, I think you do something really special.   and you're able to mentor doctors really well. And I think that this is something that not all dentists are able to do. And Jeff, you're more than welcome to chime in on anything. Like at this point, guys, you should compliment one another. mean, hello, let me just make your life even better for you. But Andrew, can you walk us through, what do you feel are some of the things you do so superior? Like, I want you to brag a little bit. This is a moment where Kiera Dent is so freaking proud of you. Tiff is proud of you. Our company is proud of you. ⁓   because I think other people want to know how to do this. So I almost want to peel back the curtain just a little bit on what are some of the things you do really well in assembly? Like I said, Jeff, chime in too. Then we're going to reverse. We're going to talk about Jeff and Andrew, you can chime in on him. So like both of you can just schmooze each other tonight as well. You guys are going to have an amazing night post podcast. You're welcome. All right. But truly, Andrew, what are some of the things you feel set in part?   Jeff & Andrew (25:11) Yeah, thank you.   Well,   that leads into a great, was going to say, like, I feel really lucky to have Jeff, obviously. And I know not everybody has a Jeff or can trust someone as much as I trust Jeff. But I think obviously it can be very hard on our marriage. So that's one side note. And I know like a lot of couples that that happens. But I think I have to always. Right? know. Two years ago, I was worried. And in gay years, that's like 40 years.   Kiera Dent (25:38) I'm so proud of you. 10 years in and you still, I think, love each other, which is amazing. I think   everybody is. You're like, okay. But it's one of those things also though, I will say, like throwing it out to couples, when couples go through what you have gone through and you're able to like be through the thick and the thin of it, I will also give advice. Like when I watched people go through dental school, and Andrew, I'm sure you saw this, I was so angry at so many of our like friends that went through.   Jeff & Andrew (25:52) you   Kiera Dent (26:05) Like they went through the residencies, they got to the end and I'm like, you freaking made it. And that's when they get divorced. And I'm like, Oh, if you're to get divorced, get divorced during the hard times, but like you have made it. You've made it. And now it's like, it's a matter of like, we bonded together, we grew together. And I think like making sure that stays a priority in your marriage. You guys remember I was a marriage and finally therapist prior to this. Like that was my thing. I like, Oh, don't give up on what you like. You went through the freaking hardest years together. Now it's like, enjoy this amazing life we built together.   Jeff & Andrew (26:10) Yeah.   Right, yeah. All right.   Yeah.   Yeah   Kiera Dent (26:35) and don't lose sight of how grateful we are for one another. anyway, like off my   I hope all of you see the potential within yourselves and ⁓ I'd love to be a part of your story and your journey. So reach out, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on The Dental Team A Podcast.  

Tiff and Dana give guidance on how to successfully manage a practice through an office manager, including long-term business vision, powerful leadership, productive systems, and a ton more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:01) Hello Dental A Team listeners. Dana and I are back at it again today ⁓ with our podcasting spirits behind us and we are so excited to be here with you guys today. Gosh Dana, this is like the beginning of summer for us right now and no matter where you're at in the country, I think you've either been on summer for a few weeks or you're just barely getting there. feel like summer breaks are wild. Like Brody is in school two weeks past my niece. Like it's just been crazy but.   The most fun part about this for both of us is that, I don't know if you guys know this or not, we get asked this question a lot, where is your headquarters? Like, where are you guys based out of? And Dana and I, Britt and I, gosh, I think most of the consultants at this point are in Arizona. Our HQ is actually Reno, Nevada, but we work from home. So, fun part about podcasting during the summer is that each of us have some sort of little or family member or someone   At the door honestly like I had to text in our you know got a family chat go and that's like hey guys FYI and Dana's like let me put a sign on the door so Dana welcome I know I know being a mom is something that lights both of us up and I think one of the best I don't know most I don't know it was like fun parts of our relationship is being able to also laugh about what it's like to be a mom in   Arizona in the sports and in the summer and I love that about the two of us and Dana tell me what has what's the start of summer looking like for you guys over there you've got your I have it easy I will never never discredit the amount of moming that you do over there so tell me how is mom life today Dana   Dana (01:47) it's good. You know, I mean,   it's wild, right? Like, there's a beauty of being able to work from home in that, like, I can very quickly throw chicken nuggets out the door and everybody is fed, right? Yes. But they like all summer long, there are no go zones, depending on what I am doing during the day. So like, if I am on calls, the front room is off limits, because it's directly beside my office. And so I can hear everything that you do.   The Dental A Team (01:58) You just turn them down the whole way, get it. Yep.   I love   that.   Dana (02:17) So I'm constantly like chunking my windows of time as to like where they can be in the house and I've had to put signs up because my neighbor kids also want to come get my kids and I'm like well we just can't knock on the door right now.   The Dental A Team (02:31) Yeah,   yeah, please just give us a moment. I love that. And honestly, though, it's kind of ⁓ like time blocking for practices, right? Because like, when can you do certain procedures? Like you don't want, you know, sedation in the front room with everybody walking by, you've got to have a very specific place for the sedation and a very specific, like no-go zone of do not pass this line once we've started. So it kind of kind of makes me think   Dana (02:34) Yeah.   question.   The Dental A Team (02:59) of how synchronistic life is in general. I say this a lot, with clients that tell us work-life balance, right? We just talked to a client about this together recently, and I'm like, goodness gracious, like we just need a life-life balance, because if we take the systems that work in whatever aspect of life it's coming to you, and if you've got systems that are working at work,   you can probably duplicate them at home and vice versa. If you have systems that are working at home, you can probably take that same thought and that same theory and apply it at work. And it works truly like tremendously because your brain's already wired to think that way. So when you can just stop trying to recreate the wheel and use what you know works, applying it in all areas of your life, things just are easy. I feel like that's how you create easy discipline.   and how you create easy habits. So taking that like time blocking and room blocking and like, guys, from these hours, this is what you're gonna be doing. It's very similar. Billing, you know, all those things. Billing coordinators need to be like, don't bother me between these hours. It's just like, you've got your kids on the other side. I tell doctors constantly or office managers, leadership teams that people are people. We learn how we learn. And if we look at how we teach our children, we can duplicate that.   Dana (03:59) Yeah.   Thank you.   The Dental A Team (04:18) in training systems as well. So Dana, I just spiraled my whole brain right there. I love it. Thank you. Thanks for being such an incredible mom. You are truly impressive. And for those of you who don't know, she's got a slew of children and animals and happenings at her home constantly. And the way that you manage all of that truly is impressive. I think you're an incredible person, Dana.   Dana (04:41) Thank you, Tib. It is a whole lot of winging it. So I appreciate that.   The Dental A Team (04:44) But winging   it, I mean, I think we all wing it when it comes to parenting. I don't think anybody actually knows the step-by-step on what we're doing. So we're all winging it and we're all doing the best that we can, but you also make time for you. You make time for work. You make time for making sure that you're prioritizing what makes you happy and fulfilled because I think that is then teaching your children to do the same and it's super cool to watch. So having an almost grown kid.   I live vicariously through you watching you parent your children and it's super fun from over here. So thanks. Thanks for continuing to have more for us. I'm here for it. I'm here for it. And I hope all of you are here for it too. know you guys, I know you guys get a kick out of my questions I give to Dana because Dana just intrigues me her life and really her choices intrigue me. She's always got something that I'm like, give me all the goods. What can I do now? Brody brought home a soda the other day or I guess the water.   Dana (05:11) you   Keep enjoying the video, Jeff.   you   The Dental A Team (05:38) that you had mentioned a couple weeks ago and I was like, oh my gosh, I know what that is because Dana told me. So you guys, she's here for the tips. If you want them, write in, ask them. Ask Dana, go on Instagram on Mondays now I think it is. Mondays or Fridays, it pops up all week for me. I find them, but she's on there too you guys. She's constantly just divvying out the tips. Find Dana, she's our tip master. And today I'm going to pick your brain some Dana. I want to talk about really effectively   Dana (05:41) you   The Dental A Team (06:06) running a practice through an office manager. And doctors, I don't want you to hear that and think, OK, I don't have to listen to this. Let me go get my manager. Nope, this is for all of you guys. This is for everyone. This is for dentists, owners, office managers, leadership, anyone aspiring to become an office manager, anyone aspiring to just give good tips to the team. Office management can come in varying sizes. And the label office manager, we found even just in hiring consultants, right?   hiring when we were in practice that office manager really doesn't have a good definition for it in the industry. Anything can be an office manager. Most of the time, Dana, maybe you could speak to this as well, I have found that the office manager position, like quote unquote there, usually narrows into billing or dealing with upset patients and really doesn't broaden outside of that. Have you found that as well, Dana? Yeah.   Dana (07:04) Mm Yeah. Yep.   And I usually feel like anytime it is promoted within right, it's typically like, well, she's really good in those insurance. So yeah, yep, I agree with you. Sometimes, you know, yeah, there's some HR pieces added in there or like, you know, I, but I feel like it does encompass mostly keeping track of AR and the money, which is fine.   The Dental A Team (07:11) Yeah.   Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think that's one aspect of it, right? And being able to oversee everything. So there's different avatars for a billing representative, a billing person, and most other positions in the practice. That's gonna come with a different kind of avatar. So depending on the type of office manager that you want in your practice, that's gonna be making a decision there on what your avatar is going to look like. And for us, your office manager in your practice is really helping to run the practice. think Dental A Team considers an office manager   like a secondary owner almost, right? You're looking at it as this is my practice. This is something that I'm fully invested in growing and I love it the same as I would if it were my own business. So that kind of investment really comes from a certain personality type and a certain leadership type. So that style of office manager is really what we're speaking to today. And there's nothing wrong with any type of office manager, any style, any avatar, like you do whatever your business needs.   is what your avatar needs to look like. So today we're speaking towards that different kind of mindset of really growing the practice and being fully invested in it. The reason that we look at it that way is we really think that there's two different minds between a dentist and the office manager that needs to push the agenda of the practice. Our dentist is kind of our idea maker. They're the person who's just coming up with all of the plans. And I think we all   can name a few of these. have one on our team. Ms. Kierdent is fantastic at this. She has the brains and the ideas behind most of the things that we do. And they're just shouting things out, right? They're like, my gosh, we could do this. We could do that. We could do this. And the team is like, stop changing things. Well, when you leave the practice management up to the dentist who's there to create ideas, and there's no one there to filter ideas through,   and to project manage when things do make it past go and we're like, yes, we're gonna do this. When it's all on the doctor, you are gonna suffer those changes consistently because no one's there to say, hey, is this projecting us towards the goals we're working on or is this confusing us and keeping us from reaching those goals? So then we do have teams that are in constant chaos and constant change and they're like, Dana, I can't take another word from this doctor. It's like, well, that's.   We gotta get the doctor out of that position. So that's the type of office manager we're speaking to today is a type of office manager that can say, yes, that's a fantastic idea. Let's see where it will take us. Is this going to push us towards those goals? I have to just brag a little on a client that I've worked with for a while now. Near and dear to my heart, like just two of my favorite humans in the whole world. And honestly, their whole practice is full of some of my favorite humans, but.   not that they didn't start as my favorite humans, but they didn't start there, right? They didn't start where they are today, years later. They started in a very different position. And when they came to me, their goals were to grow production. were like, everybody's goal, right? I want to grow production, which actually means I want to grow collections, right? I want more income. We want more saved on the side. They wanted to reinvest in the building. They wanted to do a little bit of a build out, but they knew that they didn't have a lot of space, so they needed to work with what they had.   And the dentist who was there, he really, really wanted to be a dentist. He loves having a business, but entrepreneurship just is a path for his dentistry. So he truly wants to be a dentist, and he wanted to do more surgery. He wanted to do more involved dentistry. So I was like, fantastic. Office manager, let's talk. Now this specific office manager had never been in dentistry before, at all.   at all, very different career path. could tell you all about it on a whole, it would take a whole podcast because the career is just so cool. Very different career path, probably about as far from dentistry as you could possibly get. And he made the decision to support the doctor and said, I'm going to figure this out. And he was a great manager, right? He managed expectations, but really felt stressed out, second guessed his decision.   He's like, don't think this was right for me. I don't think I'm cut out for this. And I was like, well, let's test the waters. Let's see. And we went down a journey together that has changed, I think, the course of both of our lives, probably. It's just been so cool to take this journey with them. But taking an office manager, Dana's done this too. I think all of us at some point have taken an office manager who's never worked in dentistry before and helped to create an amazing office manager.   So all of you dentists who are like, well, they don't have experience. It's not always necessary if the other pieces are there and if the dentistry can be taught if there's space for it. So keep that in mind. I don't I'm not telling you go find someone with no experience. I'm not telling you you have to have experience. Like I'm telling you it's just got to fit for you. This specific manager and a couple others that I've worked with didn't have that experience. And what we worked on then was what it takes to be an office manager, which is actually leadership.   And Dana, I know you work on this a lot with a lot of practices, starting with the leadership and really becoming the person that a team can look up to, starting with the culture and creating what you want your practice to look like. Because without that, Dana's freaking systems queen. But Dana, how difficult is it to create systems for a practice that we can't imagine what we want it to look like?   as compared to being able to imagine what we want the business and the practice to look like and what the leadership should look like, then the system's followed. Which do you feel like in your experience, especially with an office manager who's never been trained in dentistry, which do you feel like is the path that you take the most frequently?   Dana (13:06) Thank   ⁓ hands down it's building the vision and figuring out what you want because anywhere in dentistry when it comes to the schedule when it comes to your leadership team when it comes to goals like you have to know what you're trying to achieve before you build the pieces to achieve it   The Dental A Team (13:41) Yeah, exactly. And I think a lot of people start with the systems, right, Dana? And that's where it gets really confusing. And it's like, the systems are so tailored to an individual. Systems are so tailored to a specific practice, and that practice is goals. So when you start out just blanket systems, it could be anything. You could create anything, and it will or won't work. It's it's hard to tell. It's like throwing spaghetti at a wall and hoping that it sticks, that it's done.   you just, don't know. But when you have a vision and you can create something that supports that vision, which you want that to ultimately look like, you're able to custom tailor it. And that's what we were able to do with this practice and working side by side with the office manager in leadership, teaching him how to speak to people, how to have conversations hard or easy, how to invest in other people and really showing him or giving him the opportunity to see what it feels like.   when you put yourself aside and you put someone else almost ahead of you without it being ahead of you. Like that's hard to say out loud. Like him investing in his team and his team's success in the practice gave him such a high, I couldn't even stop, like his trajectory. He was just running because he felt so good about having this higher purpose. And his higher purpose truly turned out to be   investing in ⁓ leading and guiding his team members for them to be their best selves. So within that, we learned, ⁓ what he learned is really like hiring and firing the systems behind a five star patient experience, the handoffs, like what creates this relationship that I'm having with my team members, with my team members and my patients. So it started to spin once we got some really good leadership footholds in there, some really good communication skills and practicing.   ⁓ weeding out the team members that didn't need to be there and replacing them with team members that should be there, narrowing down those avatars, narrowing all of this down. He was really able to see how the slightest movements that he made truly affected every piece of the practice. He would move one needle just slightly. I always think of implant torquing, right? Like two millimeters is a lot when it comes to an implant. And that two millimeter change in a system   or in a statement or a word that you use can create a massive difference. It's the success or the failure of an implant. And same goes for everything you do in life. said earlier, everything you do, you just duplicate it. So if you're making a two millimeter change on an implant, what's going to happen in that respect when it comes to words, to leadership, and to guidance? And he truly took all of that and invested in people. And he said, hey, I'm learning too. Help me learn. And he got his team on board. It's been.   Incredible to see their success and so between the leadership and then the systems which gosh guys we talk systems constantly Dana Dana we did NDTR I Mean you guys are basic our basic core systems of Dental A Team truly work and they are case in point leadership is an ideal leadership is kind of that like personal side of it, there's not a   Dana (16:43) you   The Dental A Team (16:59) black and white, follow these steps and now you're a great leader. It's a learning system. It's something that is in you, something you have to desire, something you have to want. But the core systems, the handoffs, the NDTR, the ICRP, the communicating between team members, ⁓ gosh, blocked scheduling. We implemented blocked scheduling. We implemented time management skills. We implemented avatars for every team member, avatars for our patients, marketing.   All of the core pieces of what Dental A Team has to offer, we've implemented with this practice and gained his leadership skills as well as an entire team full of leaders at this point. They have leaders of departments, but you guys, every single team member on their team is a leader because they are manning their ships and they're acting as if they're leaders for the good of the practice overall. And it's been incredible. So that first year we worked on core systems of NDTR.   blocked scheduling and just literally ICRP handoffs to your side. Leadership in conjunction with that. So getting rid of some team members that no longer fit the needs of the practice or just weren't on board with the trajectory, replaced some great new team members in there, got them trained up. And you guys within that first year, remember their goals were to increase production, start a build out, right? And get the doctor doing dentistry.   So we were able to remove the doctor from a lot of those pieces, a lot of the decisions that he didn't have to make, we took them away from him. He didn't have to make them anymore and he trusted doctors, he trusted the process, he trusted the office manager. So things that the office manager could decide that if, you know what, if the office manager decided incorrectly, could be fixed, right? Or it's like, it's not that big of a deal. We could have gone the other way, but it's not that big of a deal, okay? Strategically moving those decisions over to the office manager.   We started doing that so that the doctor was in the chair more. He increased his surgery so much, you guys. increased, they were able to with one doctor and two hygienists, they were able to increase their production by $800,000 that first year just by narrowing down the systems and the leadership, getting the right people in the right seats, getting the right systems in place, using them and really knowing where they were going. And that first year was incredible. Stack on top of that.   They've decreased the decisions from the doctor, increased the amount of productivity that he was able to do without, by the way, expanding his hours. He stayed within the same hours. And we also, the end of that first year, got them ready for that associate space because they wanted to see that expansion. So they started the conversations on what it looked like to expand the physical building, and then what is it going to look like to add another dentist. And we projected.   five years out and then worked backwards on one, three and five years of even down to like how many hygienists and how many assistants will we need to hire? What will your overhead cost be based on current employee numbers, et cetera, all of those pieces. And we were able to just spear this incredible trajectory of growth, not even just for their first year, but gosh, five years later now, Dana, you know, they've got this massive building. They have impacted the community.   so much. Like there are people that come up to them on the streets of their community and thank them for what they were able to do for a friend or a family member, not even for themselves. They have had literal strangers say, I know who you are and you changed my friend's life. Like that's crazy, Dana, crazy. And to think that it started from leadership skills, just from someone who is invested in that blows my mind, you know?   Dana (20:53) Yeah, yeah. And I think that it's when you have an office manager that can make a mindset shift of leading versus managing, right?   And I know it's called an office manager, right? So we can kind of get ourselves stuck in that place, but it's like managing is the tasks, right? That's the tasks, the leadership, right? That's the people and the culture. And when you have those pieces running smoothly, then the task part becomes so much easier. And so I do feel like that is when you have a manager who is focused on the people, the culture and leading.   leading to the tasks versus like being the one that feels like they have to complete all the tasks themselves.   The Dental A Team (21:35) Yeah, yeah,   that's a great point. I love that because that's massive, I think for everyone listening. you've got, gosh, like if there's KPIs on you, right? There's a measurable that you're responsible for. I think one of the biggest things that we do really well, is getting people to understand you don't have to do all of the pieces to create that result. You just have to make sure the result happens.   To your point, a lot of managers and lot of doctors who are managing hold it all to themselves in order to manage the results to get the right result. But then we end up not having space for whatever it is that we need to get done, right? And we get lost in that and it gets a little chaotic. I know I've done that. I did that as a manager in practice and my team suffered tremendously because I kept everything. So one, I was not empowering my team.   I was basically telling them that they couldn't do it, right? They didn't know how to do it. I could do it better. I was overworked, overburdened and burnt out. I was angry constantly. Like I woke up one day and I was like, this is not who I am. What have I done? What have I done and how can I change this? And it was that exact thing. It was the fact that when you become an office manager, sometimes it feels like you're supposed to do all of the things.   And we forget that we have an entire team of people who want to help us. And I think Dana doctors do that too. We've seen that as well. And coaching them out of that, think is sometimes part of our biggest jobs as consultants. The biggest contributor is coaching them out of holding all of the cards to themselves. Would you agree?   Dana (23:26) Yeah, yep, absolutely.   The Dental A Team (23:28) Yeah. Well, guys, I know that sometimes we can chat and you can say, gosh, I see myself in that. I hear that. I've done that. ⁓ Or I want to do that or something similar. So I hope that today you heard something that you can take for face value, something that you can utilize if it's systems that you need to go back to. You guys, there's a slew of podcasts all over the place. We have a million of them.   Just search NDTR if you don't know what that is. We're not explaining it today because we've done it a million times. So search it on our website, you guys, on our website, TheDentalATeam.com. can go to podcasts and then you can search within our podcast. So search some of those systems, you guys. Search Avatar. Search all of those pieces and figure out where are you at right now and how can you guide yourself towards those goals. Dana, thank you so much for doing this podcast with me. I love our time together as always and I know.   It's busy season for everybody right now, so thank you for carving out the time. I appreciate you. Listeners, thank you so much for being here. We find this so valuable. We love our time together. You give us this opportunity to be quote unquote face to face. Thank goodness for visual podcasts nowadays. And you give us this opportunity to give our speech to the world. So thank you. Please drop us a five star review below and let us know how valuable you felt this was. And as always, reach out   Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. We're here to help. Thanks guys.